Love DMing, hate doing loot

[ForceUser]

I've been DMing since 1987, and I have enjoyed all the incarnations of D&D I've played since then. I'm running 4E now and I like the smooth modularity of the skill, magic and combat systems. But over the 8 years I DMed 3E, it completely killed my desire to track XP awards, encounter levels, challenge ratings, NPC stats, and most of all, loot awards. It was all so bloody tedious.

Truthfully, I've never been a big fan of the paper doll model of magic item awards because it's always seemed so artificial and video game-y. My players generally accuse me of being stingy with the loots, and that's fair. This is because I'd much rather have them discover the long-lost Sehardine, Sword of Ten Thousand Fables, which allows its wielder to call the Scion of Dreams at grave cost, than to hand them a bag with a +3 flaming longsword, a set of +4 chainmail, a cloak of displacement and assorted potions and scrolls. I mean, come on. Boring. Useful, I grant you, but boring.

So damn boring, in fact, that I don't wanna do it anymore. Since 4E arrived I've found that I vastly prefer to focus on storytelling, role-playing, world development, and running cool encounters. I have almost zero interest in spending time kitting out PCs with gobs of +1 this and +2 that. I've already done away with XP completely, and simply level the group at appropriate times in the tale. I'm loving the minimalist approach to monster-building in 4E, and with DDI it takes little effort to whip up cool monsters and NPCs, which I just eyeball in terms of encounter difficulty. But loot...loot they need.

The game assumes that they are getting gobs of uninspired Diablo-esque crap. And the players want that stuff because it makes them more powerful, and because in 4E it's expected and needed. And that's fine, really. But my issue is this:

---combing through the DDI database for magic gear is tedious

---making sure that I keep feeding them little continuous upgrades is tedious

---even if I break down and do it, I don't necessarily want to flood the game with that all that penny-ante stuff. The Magic Emporium model of magic is one thing about D&D I've never cottoned to.

I'm thinking about going with inherent bonuses instead of the paper doll. I was wondering if anyone's done that, and what the result has been. Any other comments are welcome as well. Thanks.

 

[FireLance]

I haven't any experience with inherent bonuses, but what has worked well for me is essentially pushing the responsibility for managing treasure onto the players. This is how I do it in my current 4E campaign:

1. 1st-level characters start out with 100 gp.

2. Every time the characters gain a level, they gain a magic item of new level +1 and gold equal to one-fifth the value of a magic item of new level -1. For example, when a character gains 2nd level, he gains a 3rd-level magic item and 72 gp (one-fifth the value of a 1st-level magic item).

3. Characters can use gold to buy mundane equipment, other magic items, consumables, rituals, etc. Characters can also sell magic items for gold at one-fifth value, as normal.​

Mechanics-wise, this tracks fairly closely to what one PC in a party of 5 would get on average in terms of magic items and gold. Flavor-wise, the players can simply have found the loot in the adventure, received a reward from a rich merchant, a local lord or grateful villagers, been provided with new equipment by a patron or the organization they are working for, inherited a bequest, bought the item or commissioned its creation, enchanted it themselves, or it spontaneously developed new powers - whatever the players can come up with as long as it makes sense in your setting.

It still doesn't solve the problem of the PCs getting lots of minor magic items, but it at least saves you the trouble of picking them out yourself.

 

[Aeson]

Treasure has never been that important to me as a player or DM. I've been called stingy also. I understand where you're coming from. I'd like to have it where the item is dear to them. Not just something they toss when something bigger and better comes along.

 

[ppaladin123]

It's discussed in the DMG II and it is an option in the character builder in the "details" tab of the "manage," section:

"The Dungeon Master's Guide (pg 138) has guidelines for removing magic items from your campaign. Characters with no magic items will need inherent bonuses to their attacks, damage and defenses to compensate.

This option gives your character enhancement bonuses to your attack rolls, damage rolls, and defenses that increase as you level. In addition, it makes unenchanted masterwork armor available for purchase"

I think it would be easy to do since it is supported on both sides of the DM screen. Once you do this you can go ahead and create interesting magic items and drop them into your campaign at the frequency you choose. It also gets rid of annoying conundrums about "the cool" vs. "the practical."

I haven't tried this system yet but I am leaning toward it for the next time I DM.

Edit: Once I am free of the mechanical necessity of magic items for combat efficacy, I can focus on items that have fun story effects, general utility, etc. I may just use the (non-system specific) magic items from D&D 2nd edition since they are way more fun.

 

[Asha'man]

I'm running a 3.5 game right now where I just don't give out magical loot.
Well, that's not quite true. There's still wands and potions, and on one adventure, the characters swindled Old Man Winter out of his magic staff. So I guess I give out very little magical loot, and never "just because." Currently the PCs are 8th level, and they've mostly been fighting mostly humanoids and villainous NPCs, who of course don't have any magic either, but they've fought a pack of ghouls, a mind flayer and a vampire medusa, and it's all worked well. As long as you're a bit careful with your use of monsters, and you let them access potions and wands (I didn't really want to, but they turned out to be pretty essential for healing -the campaign is pretty tough) it should work out fine.

 

[S'mon]

I think the easiest thing is to let the players decide what items they possess, changing every level as desired. Maybe the PC's own power charges them; or they are heirlooms that level with the PC, or the PC's boss/patron gifts them, or they are rewards from a grateful kingdom, etc. For higher level PCs; 1 item level +1, 1 item at level, 1 or maybe 2 items at level -1; and the GM can still give out 'story' items.

An alternative is to use the inherent bonuses system from the DMG2; that still asumes the GM is giving out items, boons, etc in addition, but only about half as many.

 

[Derulbaskul]

I've always wanted to run a game set in Midnight in large part because I wouldn't have to worry about this very issue.

It's something I just don't enjoy doing. I'm thinking about running Midnight for 4E soon and will just use the inherent bonuses tab in the Character Builder.

What I would love is a list of really good magic items by class and level for every class. I know that would horrify a lot of DMs but it sure would save some time.

 

[S'mon]

It's something I just don't enjoy doing. I'm thinking about running Midnight for 4E soon and will just use the inherent bonuses tab in the Character Builder.

Where's the inherent bonuses tab?

 

[FireLance]

Where's the inherent bonuses tab?

In Manage->Details, there is an "Inherent Bonuses" box that you can click. It's under the "Spellscarred" box.

 

[weem]

In Manage->Details, there is an "Inherent Bonuses" box that you can click. It's under the "Spellscarred" box.

Oh nice, I was not aware this (inherent bonuses) was built into the CB, thanks