Low level, low magic

[Takeda]

I tend to agree with die_kluge as well. If I empathized with anyone in the Harry Potter series it would be Ron Weasley, ... he has the potential but is unlikely to realize it if at all for a LOOOONG time. Hermionge (sp) is almost an everyman/woman as well but has the advantage of Hogwart's education.

Maybe they will run into someone sometime in the series that has the potential but no training and has just figured stuff out on their own. That'd be interesting!

I don't tend to like Manifest Destiny in all it's incarnations. Destined to accomplish X, Kill X, Discover X, Go to location X get's boring. Give the guy in the cubicle next to you a reality shift and they are struggling to survive in a Kzinti jungle hunting ground and you have something interesting, ... especially if they survive. Having a virtual superman experience the same thing is kinda boring.

 

[der_kluge]

Good to know I'm not alone on that one. As a corollary, does anyone here *prefer* the other kind of game? That is, you expect your PC to be heir to the throne, or descended from greatness, your name is written in a prophecy somewhere, or you are gifted in some way at birth? Anyone here prefer, or expect that kind of game?

I know it's ran an awful lot (last game I just played, for one), but which scenario is really preferred by people? Or, have you ever even thought about it?

 

[Felon]

I think that's where the discussion of various subgenres of fantasy in the various HERO sourcebooks is very useful. You have swords-and-sorcery, which is relatively low-powered and close to the real world. You have what Fantasy HERO calls "epic fantasy", where characters are powerful but still close to the tropes in literary fiction, and world-shaking magic exists but is limited to the realm of plot devices (the world-building consequences of this may or may not be thought through). Then you have high fantasy ("D&D fantasy"), where super magic can actually be used by PCs. Unlike nearly every other game out there, 3E (and to some extent, 1/2E if you actually played up to high levels) moves through different subgenres as the level increases. You start off mundane, gain power, and by the end you're wallowing in magic and boom stuff. This is good if you like the subgenres you're moving through. It's not so good if you'd prefer to stick to one subgenre.

Well-put. Now we're getting somewhere.

I've always felt that the folks designing D&D should realize this, and that what they're doing with this game--leaning ever farther towards the type of over-the-top, spellpunk subgenre, of which Eberron will be the ultimate expression--is not what a lot of their customers want, and actually make the effort branch off a "low magic" sword-n'-sorcery subgenre so that fans of Howard, Leiber, and Wagner would have a well-designed, thoroughly-playtested system that suits them. That beats the hell out of individual DM's each doing their ham-handed kludges of the existing game by paring away magic items and spellcasting. I have none-too-fond memories of half-baked campaigns where wizards started the game with no spells and just sat on their tucchus with no role in the party until the DM felt like tossing out the oh-so-precious power component needed to get detect magic.

 

[Felon]

We must not be reading the same EN World. I've read many threads in the past where people were looking for ways to tone down the magic and the power. In fact, I think you're more likely to get sneering directed your way if you espouse high power-high level play.

Hmm. What do you wanna bet that if I start a thread about how I'm decidedly not eagerly-anticipating the forthcoming uber-magic Eberron campaign, I'll get far more fanboy responses cutting me off at the knees than I do sentiments of agreement?

 

[Crothian]

That's because the fans of the setting are more likely to response to anything about their setting. And besides, this is the internet, so no matter what opinion you post people want to tell you how wrong you are.

 

[Felon]

And here I thought it was just me...

 

[hong]

Well-put. Now we're getting somewhere.

I've always felt that the folks designing D&D should realize this, and that what they're doing with this game--leaning ever farther towards the type of over-the-top, spellpunk

I've never seen the word spellpunk before, but now that I have, it's up there with dungeonpunk in my anthology of greatest meaningless labels.

subgenre, of which Eberron will be the ultimate expression

Eberron is not the "ultimate expression" of anything. If Eberron is anything, it's its own game, or perhaps a member of the modern fantasy subgenre.

 

[der_kluge]

Hmm. What do you wanna bet that if I start a thread about how I'm decidedly not eagerly-anticipating the forthcoming uber-magic Eberron campaign, I'll get far more fanboy responses cutting me off at the knees than I do sentiments of agreement?

I don't know; I've no interest in it. I've only seen a few remarks here of people looking forward to it. Will it be done well, I'm sure. Will it be unique and original, I'm sure of that as well. Is it something I want? Not a chance in hell.

 

[der_kluge]

And besides, this is the internet, so no matter what opinion you post people want to tell you how wrong you are.

That's where you're wrong, Crothian.

 

[Emirikol]

THieves World, city of Sanctuary.

We've really enjoyed our CONAN game. My players were initially taken aback, but now tell me over and over how refreshing it is to be in a lower magic campaign.

Here's a couple tips:
1. Players want 'something.' If it's not going to be magic, I recommend that you either:
a) double the ability score advancement table per level
b) hand out lots of x.p.

2. Make all spell-casting classes 'prestige classes' with the following requirements: 2 levels in a non-spellcasting class. This puts spellcasters 2 levels behind other character classes and then players naturally will shy away from them.

3. Hand out healing potions left and right. In fact, DOUBLE the normal healing rates. This get's rid of any 'need' for clerics.

4. Instead of monsters that can only be hit by magic, simply add 50/100 hit points to the creatures.

5. Tell players that only +4 and 'higher' is considered 'magical.' Masterwork +0, +1, +2, and +3 are simply variations of masterwork.

6. If you're ambitious you'll also give an encumbrance/armor penalty to ALL spellcasters (including paladins, clerics, rangers, sorcerers, psionics, etc.). Just say that, "magic is magic." There is no arcane/divine/psionic distinction. This was actually the BEST thing I ever did in my campaign.

7. Customize alternate things to hand out to player characters. Yea, yea, yea. Most DM's talk a lot about this, but few people do it. Make items that are NOT MAGICAL but give 'masterwork' bonus. Players need to stop thinking about everything as being 'magic.' Well, how about a nice Khauranian Black Cloak that has a thick and durable fabric that instils a +1 benefit to AC. How about the finest short sword ever made of Akbitanan steel that is so quick that it gives a +3 bonus to hit and +2 to damage. Etc. This quickly becomes a shell game, but then players stop thinking about generic D&D magic and quickly start thinking about the kingdoms, races, and famous people of your campaign and the items named after them.

You can see the rest of our rules on our D20Conan discussion group page.

jh











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