Low magic rulebook anyone?

[Turjan]

D&D 3E and most d20 products accomplish a great work as far as balancing party levels, amount of treasure, monster CR's, and EL's is concerned. I appreciate this because even inexperienced DM's are enabled to run balanced campaigns, and they can plug in almost every d20 product that is constructed according to the general guidelines given by the core rulebooks.

When it comes to low magic campaigns, things are different. It's not done with giving out less treasure or restricting weapons to +1 for mid levels and +2 being minor artifacts . This simple approach destroys the carefully set balance of the core game. Magic is even more complicated: Though the removal of True Resurrection or Time Stop seem obvious, it's much more difficult with lower level spells.

I see the difficulty that everyone may have a different concept of what "low magic" actually means, and the solution may differ greatly from campaign to campaign. I might have a look at Sláine RPG, but it's heavily altered from the PHB as far as races and classes go. Anyway, I think it would be a great help to have a rulebook depicting a low magic campaign that still contains all the core classes, of course with suitable changes, plus a fitting selection of still valid or heavily altered spells. This would be a great help for not so experienced DM's.

Therefore, my question: Does any d20 company have a project going into this direction?

Turjan

 

[Darrin Drader]

I have no idea if any D20 company plans on putting such a book out, but I second the motion for making one. I would definitely buy the product, as long as it contains the following elements:

A sliding magic scale. This would be to provide rules for running settings anywhere from just slightly lower magic than the core D&D rules, to just above no magic at all such as modern Earth (depending on your take on it. Some would argue that we're truly magic dead).

Rules that cover the creation of magic items in these low magic settings. In some settings a +1 magic sword would be an artifact.

Alternate sources of magic. It wouldn't all be standard and divine magic. Maybe magic would be fueled by earth, air, water and fire or maybe it comes from magical gemstones that fall from the sky...

The effect that this would have on magical monsters. Would a beholder still float through the air? Would its eyestalks still work? What about displacer beasts?

Anyway, you get the idea.

 

[BryonD]

Using the D20 Modern system could be one alternative. Or you could just tweak the basic 3E system by making Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric, etc be semi-prestige classes. They can not be started until 5th level or so.

Also, I already complimented this in a thread before, but I think Colonel Hardisson has a great approach on this in his Middle Earth alternative rules. All primary spellcasting classes may only be taken every other level. So a level 10 character could be A wizard5/fighter5 or wizard5/cleric5 or fighter10. But could not be above level 5 in wizard, sorcerer, druid or cleric. (maybe bard, either way I guess) Tack on a X2 to X10 (or more) on the base costs for magic items and you have a low magic game.

 

[Turjan]

@BryonD: Well, I usually prefer a fantasy setting. And I don't think it's so simple as you say. You have to tweak the monsters, the CR's, and so on. Actually, you have to tweak about everything. That's why I would appreciate a rulebook on this.

 

[Hardhead]

I would buy such a book.

 

[2WS-Steve]

While waiting for a full product to cover this d20 Modern can take you part of the way there. The magic items in the book keep to the lower end of the scale and emphasize special effects over large bonuses. Also, since you can't start casting spells until you get to an advanced class that effectively knocks at least 3 caster levels off all spellcasters, and that's for the Urban Arcana setting, the others are even more low magic. Finally, you get defense bonuses built in.

edit: oops, should read before I post; what Bryon said...

 

[BryonD]

@BryonD: Well, I usually prefer a fantasy setting. And I don't think it's so simple as you say. You have to tweak the monsters, the CR's, and so on. Actually, you have to tweak about everything. That's why I would appreciate a rulebook on this.

I don't think it would be hard to tweak D20 modern to fit a non-modern setting. It would be very easy in fact.

And there would be no need to tweak CRs. Particullarly if you use the forced multi-class option.

If you are going to honestly play a low magic game, monsters with high (or any) SR and DR should be every bit as rare as the powerful magic items that would be used against them in a standard game.

SR is typically 11+CR, just change that to 11+(0.5*CR) and you scale fine. But rather than tweak, it would be better to just look at each monster on a case by case and decide if it belongs at all.

Otherwise, play GURPS.

 

[jmucchiello]

A sliding magic scale. This would be to provide rules for running settings anywhere from just slightly lower magic than the core D&D rules, to just above no magic at all such as modern Earth (depending on your take on it. Some would argue that we're truly magic dead).

What is so hard about doing this yourself, really? Multiple the formulae by some factor. Magic items cost 10 x gp of base D&D. That would make things low level in a hurry. Or don't change the gold cost change the XP cost. Multiple by 1.5 instead of 1/25 the market price to get the XP cost. A +1 sword would cost 400 XP in such a world.

Rules that cover the creation of magic items in these low magic settings. In some settings a +1 magic sword would be an artifact.

The effect that this would have on magical monsters. Would a beholder still float through the air? Would its eyestalks still work? What about displacer beasts?

This sounds more like a sourcebook than a rulebook. It doesn't work without releasing a set of books containing monsters and settings wheere they roam. You want someone to create a low-magic world setting. From what I understand Earth 1066 will be low-magic.

Using d20 Modern in a fantasy genre could work too.

My question is: what fun is low-magic? I want a high-magic sourcebook. Every innkeeper is a sorcerer-5/expert-6. Every tavern wench can cast low level illusions. There are schools like Hogwarts. Goblins, Orcs nad bugbears live in cities along side humans because it is dangerous in the wilderness.

Oh, well.

 

[tensen]

Look towards any of the HarnWorld products and their d20 incarnations as possibilities for Low Magic campaigns.

 

[MThibault]

I think that the CRs would be an issue in a low magic *fantasy* setting. If you have low-magic accross the board, and monsters have little or no spell-like or supernatural powers, then your lack of magic to counter won't be much of a hinderance. If the monsters have magic and the PCs don't, that's a different story.

I think that Damage Resistance would become incrementally more powerful in a campaign were fighters don't have magic weapons (or magic to boost attacks/damage) and the spellcasters don't have boom spells. A DR 10/+1 would be very powerful. Not only is there a serious possibility that no one will have a +1 weapon, but the availability of Bull's Strength, or Prayer or whatever will be drastically reduced, so it is also more difficult to just overcome the 10HP threshold. After about 4th level, most monsters aren't designed to lose when they take 4-5HP of damage each round.

But also the reduced versatility of the PCs would have a broader effect -- and this effect is difficult to quantify. Flying opponents, for example, become harder to fight (you can't fly, or jump great heights without magic) and again the ranged damage dealing spells would be difficult to come by. At low-mid levels flying could add +1 or +2 to the CR of a creature. Although if the magic level is such that flying becomes common around level 15, then it ceases to have an effect on the CR.

It is difficult to discuss the specifics because it really depends on how you are conceptualizing and implementing "low magic". If that just means "few magic items" the CRs will be affected differently than if it means "few spells", or "weaker magic items". I'm sure many people read my examples above and thought, "Well, Magic Weapon just becomes a more useful spell", or "That isn't a problem if potions are the only magic available." And that is true, but it assumes that the DM wants spells and potions in her low-magic campaign.

A toolbox would be cool, but it would have to account for all of the different types and combinations of low magic, and be very rules-oriented, to be of general use. For a truly generic low-magic tool box to be successful, the designer will not have the luxury of dictating the definition of low-magic to the reader. It will provide rules and advice to cover the situations that the DM devises. A specific setting has the advantages of working with a single conception of low magic and integrating all of the necessary changes to Monsters, Classes, Races, etc. that will be needed to maintain a balanced campaign. And it wouldn't be as dry to read because the flavor text would be as much the raison d'etre of the publication as the rules.

I think that a series of articles might be more useful. Pick a different low-magic concept each month and detail the changes needed (or at least the kinds of changes needed, if not the actual rules) to integrate it with the rules as presented in the core books. The problem with this approach is that only really hard-core gamers will find the articles interesting in the abstract if they have no intention of ever implementing them in a game -- so even those DMs who want to go low magic will probably only be interested in the one article in the series that addresses their specific needs.

Sorry to ramble, hope there's something constructive in there. I would love to write this sort of thing, but it just seems like a huge undertaking for something that would get little use even in low-magic settings.

Cheers.