Lycanthrope PC question

[Xeeker]

One of my friends is going to join a campaign of 6th level pcs and wants to play a lycanthrope. We are confused whether he is to use a +3 (natural) so that he could be 3rd level monk with the +3 from Lycanthrope natural.

But there is also a part about him needing to also add the hd of the animal form to his ecl...so that if he were a were-brown bear he would have to be +6 from the hd, +3 from the lycanthrope, and he couldn't even play in the party with that kind of ECL.

The reason we are confused is because of the half-dragon template which is only a +3 ecl, and roughly equivilant to lycanthropy werebear. So we suspect that the animal's hd that he gains are not actually considered when doing ECL for him to be in the party.

Anyone know the final word on this? We spent several hours browsing the website and this forum. Thanks.

 

[nameless]

The animal hit dice are indeed part of the ECL.

+3 LA for all the benefits of a powerful animal (Dire Tiger, for instance) isn't balanced, but with the rationale that higher-hit die animals are more powerful, having to buy the (not-as-good-as-class-levels) animal hit dice makes it fair.

In short, the ECL of a lycanthrope is 3 more than the hit dice of the base animal. 9 for a Werebear.

 

[RangerWickett]

Also, remember that natural lycanthropes get Damage Reduction 10/silver. That is ridiculously powerful in most games. Heck, play a wererat. That's only one racial hit die, so you could be a 2nd level monk, with 1d8+2 hit points from the wererat, and then the ability to sneak around as a dire rat, ignore a lot of damage, and get a +6 to Dex and +2 to Con.

Oh, and +2 to Wisdom.

Trust me. I just spent a week updating Goodman Games's "Complete Guide to Wererats" from 3.0 to 3.5, and wererats are dancing in my head. It's a terrible choice for spellcasters, since they lose out on so much, but for rogues and monks wererats are a great choice. Heck, werewolf, which is 2 hit dice, or wereboar, which is 3 hit dice. You'd have crap for skills since you'd have little or nothing in the way of class levels, but you'd be fairly tough as a fighter.

Oh, and um, see if you can convince the GM to let you be some sort of lycanthrope that isn't evil. Weredog is 1 hit die, and because lycanthrope alignment is based on cultural perception of the animal, dogs are generally seen as loyal. Or a were-eagle, also 1 hit die, which would probably be NG. Plus they get to fly. My personal favorite would be the halfling werecat, or if you're in Eberron, the weredeinonychus.

 

[Jdvn1]

One of my friends is going to join a campaign of 6th level pcs and wants to play a lycanthrope. We are confused whether he is to use a +3 (natural) so that he could be 3rd level monk with the +3 from Lycanthrope natural.

But there is also a part about him needing to also add the hd of the animal form to his ecl...so that if he were a were-brown bear he would have to be +6 from the hd, +3 from the lycanthrope, and he couldn't even play in the party with that kind of ECL.

The reason we are confused is because of the half-dragon template which is only a +3 ecl, and roughly equivilant to lycanthropy werebear. So we suspect that the animal's hd that he gains are not actually considered when doing ECL for him to be in the party.

Anyone know the final word on this? We spent several hours browsing the website and this forum. Thanks.

Right, you add the HD as part of the ECL. He could, in theory, still play in the party but he'd be more powerful than anyone else and would gain much less experience than anyone else. He could be a level 1 Monk Werebear, which would make him ECL 10 and be very powerful. I'd just ask him to come up with a different character idea, though.

Alternately, you could have him play as a Monk and then later take levels away and give him the werebear template. Or have him play an Awakened Blackbear Monk (ECL +6, I think, from Savage Species -- that'd make him ECL 7) and not permit him to level for a few levels in exchange for the werebear template. At which point, totally remake his character.

Oh, and you also don't have to specify were-brown bear because the werebear template assumes a brown bear. A black bear or a polar bear would make for a different template entirely. ... Which you could, in theory, come up with.

A few options, so.

 

[Boddha]

Dragon #313 had an article on lycanthrope classes, including werebear as a 9 level class. Multiclassing as Lycanthrope/Monk would allow him to be on par with the rest of the PC's, trading Monk abilities for racial bonuses.

 

[Verequus]

On Wizards, there has been a Savage Species-column, too. I actually prefer the solution of Skip Williams to the one in Dragon #313.

 

[BSF]

I probably sound like a broken record for the number of times I suggest the Savage Progressions article.

Savage Progressions: Werebear
Savage Progressions: Wererat

I would suggest going with these. Let the PC take the levels they choose between animal, lycanthrope, and monk. Do not apply multi-class penalties for animal or lycanthrope. If you want a lycanthrope that doesn't match, use these articles as guidelines to creating a new lycanthrope.

If the PC is a natural lycanthrope, he has control of his forms per the description. He also has access to level 3 of the lycanthrope template. This is the one that grants full DR, and allowsthe curse to be spread.

If the PC is afflicted, then he will probably be interested in the Control Shape skill. HE will not have access to level 3 of the lycanthrope class.

Your DM should consider the implications carefully. DR in 3.5 is powerful. Particularly at lower levels. This is offset by the lack of feats, BAB, saves, HD and skills for those levels. Basically, this is buying into the ECL. Some players are not as aware of these drawbacks, so do your friend a favor and point them out to him.

Animal levels are where the PC gains HD, BAB, skills, saves, and natural armor and stat increases when in animal or hybrid forms.

It is possible to make some very interesting characters using these rules since you could take 2 levels of lycanthrope, 1 of animal and 3 of class if you choose. It is also possible to dip in with one level in lycanthrope just to have involuntary shapechanging + limited bonuses.

It can be a slightly unbalanced PC if the werecreature provides good synergy to the base class. But with a little more work and care by the DM, it is still possible to have a relatively balanced and fun game. One note on a game with lycanthrope PCs in 3.5: By necessity, more NPCs will need to have silver weapons. This is more of a threat to the lycanthrope PC without increasing the threat to the other PCs. The player of a lycanthrope PC might feel this is picking on them specifically, and to a lesser degree it is. At low levels, DR is powerful and can make a PC nearly invulnerable compared to his peers (the other PCs). The DM has to use some of these tricks occasionally to create challenges that affect each PC equally.

You might point that out to the DM and the player ahead of time so everyone understands that the point is to have a fun, challenging game for everyone. One PC always overshadowing the others is no fun.

That being said, a monk werebear has great synergy. DR + evasion and good saves. The PC will not have all the features of a pure monk, but will have a definite niche. He will need to carefully balance the improvement of monk abilities with the stat bonuses for the animal form.

And yes, I have had PCs play lycanthropes in a game.