Macro-Classes (A concept)

[Chess435]

Something I've noticed with post-epic play, is that your individual character levels start to mean less and less the higher up you get. Going from 6th to 7th level wizard is exciting, but 69th to 70th much less so. A concept I've been tossing around for a while is macro-classes, an optional system for super-high level characters, where alternate (PrC) esque classes are able to replace your progression retroactively, and each level of these classes would represent 10x/100x/1000x character levels/HD. This not only cuts down on bookkeeping, but makes each individual level more engaging. The tricky part will be to 1. make sure PC's aren't losing access to critical class features that make everything function, and 2. Try to keep everything at a relatively equivalent power level.

In my concept, these macro-classes would come in 3 power tiers, able to be mixed freely with standard classes/PrC's, and also able to wholly replace your class progression.

Mega-Classes (10x)
Minimum HD for entry: 40 (Which matches the minimum for Lesser Deity)
Total levels available 1-50 (?)
These would be the bread-and-butter of powerful outsiders, deities, and epic PC's. They would be designed to cover a character's basic 1-20 progression in a simplified form in the first couple levels, consolidate the mountain of bonus feats from level into divine and later cosmic abilities, and give broad general power that would make any mortal blush.

Giga-Classes (100x)
Minimum HD for entry: 200 (Halfway between Elder One and First One)
Total levels available: 1-50 (?)
Getting into the crazy powerful stuff now, these classes would represent one's mastery over reality, compressing the mastery that not even the gods themselves could aspire to into the first level and escalating from there. Feats would be compressed into bonus Cosmic and Transcendental abilities, with an Omnific-tier capstone.

Tera-Classes (1000x)
Minimum HD for entry: 2000 (High Lord)
Total levels available: 1-20
The entirety of a universe rendered unto power, these Tera-Classes would represent the aspirations and powers of the mightiest of beings. Want to forge your own realities, or work towards unlocking the secrets of the Omega? This is where you're looking. Levels here would have additional Transcendental and Omnific Abilities, with a Metempiric-tier capstone.

 

[Beefermatic]

Something I've noticed with post-epic play, is that your individual character levels start to mean less and less the higher up you get. Going from 6th to 7th level wizard is exciting, but 69th to 70th much less so. A concept I've been tossing around for a while is macro-classes, an optional system for super-high level characters, where alternate (PrC) esque classes are able to replace your progression retroactively, and each level of these classes would represent 10x/100x/1000x character levels/HD. This not only cuts down on bookkeeping, but makes each individual level more engaging. The tricky part will be to 1. make sure PC's aren't losing access to critical class features that make everything function, and 2. Try to keep everything at a relatively equivalent power level.

In my concept, these macro-classes would come in 3 power tiers, able to be mixed freely with standard classes/PrC's, and also able to wholly replace your class progression.

Mega-Classes (10x)
Minimum HD for entry: 40 (Which matches the minimum for Lesser Deity)
Total levels available 1-50 (?)
These would be the bread-and-butter of powerful outsiders, deities, and epic PC's. They would be designed to cover a character's basic 1-20 progression in a simplified form in the first couple levels, consolidate the mountain of bonus feats from level into divine and later cosmic abilities, and give broad general power that would make any mortal blush.

Giga-Classes (100x)
Minimum HD for entry: 200 (Halfway between Elder One and First One)
Total levels available: 1-50 (?)
Getting into the crazy powerful stuff now, these classes would represent one's mastery over reality, compressing the mastery that not even the gods themselves could aspire to into the first level and escalating from there. Feats would be compressed into bonus Cosmic and Transcendental abilities, with an Omnific-tier capstone.

Tera-Classes (1000x)
Minimum HD for entry: 2000 (High Lord)
Total levels available: 1-20
The entirety of a universe rendered unto power, these Tera-Classes would represent the aspirations and powers of the mightiest of beings. Want to forge your own realities, or work towards unlocking the secrets of the Omega? This is where you're looking. Levels here would have additional Transcendental and Omnific Abilities, with a Metempiric-tier capstone.

Seems interesting. I'd like to see how this functionally works but I like the base concept.

In my IH Campaigns, once you become a God, you no longer level up in the traditional sense. First off the Experience System's wheels fall off as it goes up at a J Curve in terms of experience to level up progression, but second off it's just too much busy work crap with too many sweeping changes as your character sheets get really complex and unwieldy after level 60ish. So I use the Quintessence System for leveling up exclusively one you hit God levels and you only level up once you've reached your next level of divine Ascension shooting up to the next highest level of divinity and leveling 10-20-40+ levels at once. This allows players to pick exactly what they want, optimize the heck out of it and make whatever choices they want.

One thing I do do however as it can take months and months to get your next stage of divinity, is if the party has a major event happen or a major victory, I'll level them up with a spiritual growth boost, so they'll gain 5 levels and a new divine ability, that way you can kinda keep the fun of getting new stuff regularly involved.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Chess435 buddy!

Something I've noticed with post-epic play, is that your individual character levels start to mean less and less the higher up you get. Going from 6th to 7th level wizard is exciting, but 69th to 70th much less so. A concept I've been tossing around for a while is macro-classes, an optional system for super-high level characters, where alternate (PrC) esque classes are able to replace your progression retroactively, and each level of these classes would represent 10x/100x/1000x character levels/HD. This not only cuts down on bookkeeping, but makes each individual level more engaging. The tricky part will be to 1. make sure PC's aren't losing access to critical class features that make everything function, and 2. Try to keep everything at a relatively equivalent power level.

I think I may have solved that issue in these new rules for 5E where essentially class levels are capped at Level 20, and then divinity templates act as multipliers rather than bonuses.

This then cuts out the near-irrelevancy of (for example) going from Level 69 to Level 70 and each jump is meaningful because you would instead be going from (for example) Demi-deity to Lesser Deity, or whatever.

While that doesn't aid the 3.5E/Pathfinder rules most use here, but I am guessing it would be easy enough to convert over.

...and yes I know, hurry up and get them finished Krusty.

 

[Beefermatic]

Hey Chess435 buddy!



I think I may have solved that issue in these new rules for 5E where essentially class levels are capped at Level 20, and then divinity templates act as multipliers rather than bonuses.

Nice, I'd like to see how that functions too

This then cuts out the near-irrelevancy of (for example) going from Level 69 to Level 70 and each jump is meaningful because you would instead be going from (for example) Demi-deity to Lesser Deity, or whatever.

Yeah basic experience levelling becomes functionally impossible after level 100. Not unless you're a mathematician.

While that doesn't aid the 3.5E/Pathfinder rules most use here, but I am guessing it would be easy enough to convert over.

...and yes I know, hurry up and get them finished Krusty.

Yeah hurry up Krusty, God.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Beefermatic buddy!

Nice, I'd like to see how that functions too

Its all fairly straightforward. I'll maybe ask for a few playtesters sometime in May (probably) and get some opinions on whether this new ruleset is as simple and accessible as I think it is.

Take Level 20 character + Add Divinity Template + Choose Portfolio(s) + Pick Divine Boons = GO!

Divinity Templates are "Power Levels"
Portfolios are "Classes"
Divine Boons are "Feats/Class Powers"

If you are creating a new Immortal Character rather than importing a character you already roleplay, you could add...

+ Pick any 3 Magic Items in the DMG (Other than Artifacts - you have to make those)

If you are playing/creating a spell-caster then you will want to have a look at the Epic Magic chapter.

The Players Guide is a big book, but that's really because of the breadth of options. I want people to be able to create an immortal (after they have a Level 20 character that is) within 10 minutes or less.

Yeah basic experience levelling becomes functionally impossible after level 100. Not unless you're a mathematician.

Exactly. Infinite leveling is pointless, because eventually the classes just become more math + added complexity from feats.

I have 30 Divinity Templates in the book and I suspect 90% of games won't need more than the first 10. Your campaign on the other hand Beefy...

Yeah hurry up Krusty, God.

I know, I know.

 

[Beefermatic]

Hey Beefermatic buddy!



Its all fairly straightforward. I'll maybe ask for a few playtesters sometime in May (probably) and get some opinions on whether this new ruleset is as simple and accessible as I think it is.

Take Level 20 character + Add Divinity Template + Choose Portfolio(s) + Pick Divine Boons = GO!

Divinity Templates are "Power Levels"
Portfolios are "Classes"
Divine Boons are "Feats/Class Powers"

If you are creating a new Immortal Character rather than importing a character you already roleplay, you could add...

+ Pick any 3 Magic Items in the DMG (Other than Artifacts - you have to make those)

If you are playing/creating a spell-caster then you will want to have a look at the Epic Magic chapter.

The Players Guide is a big book, but that's really because of the breadth of options. I want people to be able to create an immortal (after they have a Level 20 character that is) within 10 minutes or less.

It certainly seems more streamlined, I hope it captures the majesty and overall bigness of IH though. Otherwise it'll be just another version of Deities and Demigods and their Salient Divine Abilities system.

Exactly. Infinite leveling is pointless, because eventually the classes just become more math + added complexity from feats.

At least from experience points. The way you set it up with Quintessence remains constant, attainable and functional in 3.5/pf I've found.

I have 30 Divinity Templates in the book and I suspect 90% of games won't need more than the first 10. Your campaign on the other hand Beefy...

Lol, I'll definitely need them all! Hahaha

 

[Chess435]

I find it interesting that you two both solved the issue the same way independently of one another. Perhaps great minds really do think alike!

I'll at least get a concept and a couple classes written down so that others can use the idea for themselves if they wish, but probably not gonna delve too deep on this one.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey buddy!

It certainly seems more streamlined,

Absolutely. But half of that is the differing nature of 5E and the other half is my attempt to make things a bit more approachable.

I hope it captures the majesty and overall bigness of IH though.

Its me, you don't need to worry.

Otherwise it'll be just another version of Deities and Demigods and their Salient Divine Abilities system.

I've now got SEVEN God tiers of which the first is the 'Immortal Tier'.

At least from experience points. The way you set it up with Quintessence remains constant, attainable and functional in 3.5/pf I've found.

I meant specifically in terms of what you gain with each level up becoming a bit formulaic (and I was guilty of that in the past with the Portfolios).

Lol, I'll definitely need them all! Hahaha

Some hypothetical divine ranks above those too...just for fun.

 

[Beefermatic]

Hey buddy!

Oy!

Absolutely. But half of that is the differing nature of 5E and the other half is my attempt to make things a bit more approachable.

Fair enough, good point.

Its me, you don't need to worry.

Idk... jk

I've now got SEVEN God tiers of which the first is the 'Immortal Tier'.

Interesting, I can't wait to see it.

I meant specifically in terms of what you gain with each level up becoming a bit formulaic (and I was guilty of that in the past with the Portfolios).

Yeah the Portfolios all having the exact same things for each level was a bit too formulaic indeed. It was fine I suppose but it would have been nice to have like a list of powers to choose from each new tier of your portfolio. Granted that would be a logistical nightmare and way tf too time consuming, but yeah. So I'm looking forward to see how you improved this.

Some hypothetical divine ranks above those too...just for fun.

Uh oh....

 

[Beefermatic]

I find it interesting that you two both solved the issue the same way independently of one another. Perhaps great minds really do think alike!

Lol thanks, one thing I should mention, I keep the amount of Spiritual Growth I give to my players in alignment with their Divine Rank growth rate.

So, for example, if a Deity is 40th level (lesser deity) they will have a 20 level gap between lesser and intermediate deity, their next stage of divinity. So that gives me 4 "level ups" I can give them in between to keep things fresh and fun while they progress, as each level of Spiritual Growth gives you 5 Hit Dice, +2 all stats, +1 Divine Rank and 1 Divine Ability.

Then when they do finally get their next stage of true divinity, I just apy whatever gains they made via Spiritual Growth and balance it with what they would have gained from their next stage of divinity.

That way it's not imbalanced and they didn't get any kind of extra boosts when everything is said and done.

I'll at least get a concept and a couple classes written down so that others can use the idea for themselves if they wish, but probably not gonna delve too deep on this one.

Nice, I'd love to see them.