D&D 5E Mage Hand and the No Good, Low Down, Dirty Rotten Arcane Trickster

[Syntallah]

Just kidding

The pertinent parts of the Mage Hand spell:

“…You can use your action to control the hand. You can use the hand to manipulate an object, open an unlocked door or container, stow or retrieve an item from an open container, or pour the contents out of a vial. You can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it…” I, as DM, am using a Sage Advice adjudication from some years ago that Mage Hand can manipulate an object as if a human was doing so with one hand. So, you can throw a lever or knock a mug off a counter, but you can’t thread a needle.

And now for the point: I have ruled that the Arcane Trickster in my group will make any at distance Thievery checks using his Mage Hand at Disadvantage. My reasoning is A) Game balance, Mage Hand is a cantrip, the lowest level magic in the Game and B) there is absolutely no risk or drama if he makes every disable trap check or open locks check from 30ft away. I might as well never add a single trap to anything ever again.

Now, my player was a bit upset about my ruling and asked me to check around the boards. So, without further ado, I ask the august body of ENworlders: am I being too harsh on him?

 

[SilverfireSage]

I don't think so. That is an awfully large boost to power when a rogue can suddenly disarm traps from that far away. And to be honest, I probably wouldn't let him do it anyway for a couple simple reasons: A lot of lockpicking is done by feel, not just by dexterity, i.e., you can feel out where each of the pins are, know when they are in the right position, etc. The second reason is for disarming a trap. When you're 30 ft away trying to disarm a small trapped device, it's going to be difficult if not impossible to see what you're doing. Disadvantage then would be generous!

 

[Celtavian]

I think you are. You are penalizing the player for taking an archetype that specializes in using mage hand for doing what other rogue archetypes do with no disadvantage at normal range. You are making the archetype seem less skilled than other rogues. Seems lame to penalize the best use of his low level archetype power and one of the most unique abilities an Arcane Trickster gets.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

Disadvantage seems more than fair. Actually I wouldn't allow disable trap and open lock checks at all. The key sentence in the spell description is "...you can't thread a needle". If disabling a trap or picking a lock is easier than threading a needle, there is no reason to bother with a rogue. I would allow Mage Hand to be used to trigger traps though, without any penalty. It shouldn't be a problem having the hand slapping the floor or pushing trip wires.

 

[Syntallah]

The Arcane Trickster Mage Hand Legerdemain class feature specifically allows the "use of thieves' tools to pick locks and disarm traps at range." So, I am more than happy to let him do these things. I just think like Silverfiresage that it is quite a bit more tricky to do them without feel, hearing clicks, etc. Thus you can do it, but with Disadvantage.

 

[Roger]

Enhhh this seems like the weaksauce to me. What kind of lame trap doesn't kill everyone within 60', anyway.

The Mage Hand Legerdemain feature seems pretty clear to me that this is operating as designed.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

The Arcane Trickster Mage Hand Legerdemain class feature specifically allows the "use of thieves' tools to pick locks and disarm traps at range." So, I am more than happy to let him do these things. I just think like Silverfiresage that it is quite a bit more tricky to do them without feel, hearing clicks, etc. Thus you can do it, but with Disadvantage.

Ah, didn't know they had a special version. It that case I would actually not give disadvantage, as it is a specific class feature and the extra difficulty would be like giving fighters disadvantage on their extra attacks. Also remember that disadvantage is quite a large.. disadvantage (something like -3 to -5 on the roll). If you do want to simulate a bit of extra difficulty, a simple -1 or -2 on the roll would be a bit less harsh.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

The Arcane Trickster Mage Hand Legerdemain class feature specifically allows the "use of thieves' tools to pick locks and disarm traps at range." So, I am more than happy to let him do these things. I just think like Silverfiresage that it is quite a bit more tricky to do them without feel, hearing clicks, etc. Thus you can do it, but with Disadvantage.

This ability also does NOT state that doing these activities occurs at Disadvantage, so why impose it? The reason the Arcane Trickster can do this is because magic lets them do it, so why suddenly impose a fluff rationale for why they can't effectively perform a valuable class ability (and you don't get many of those)?

It's like saying that an Evoker can scribe all Evocation spells for half price, except Fireball, because hey, that should be harder 'cause of fire 'n stuff.

 

[Syntallah]

Ah, didn't know they had a special version. It that case I would actually not give disadvantage, as it is a specific class feature and the extra difficulty would be like giving fighters disadvantage on their extra attacks. Also remember that disadvantage is quite a large.. disadvantage (something like -3 to -5 on the roll). If you do want to simulate a bit of extra difficulty, a simple -1 or -2 no the roll would be a bit less harsh.

The simple fact that they can make the check in the first place is powerful enough to satisfy the class feature. No one else in the verse can even make Mage Hand do what an arcane trickster can do. I just think that making every check from the safety of 30ft is simply too powerful for a minor class feature. Thus my ruling: you can do it, but at Disadvantage [which is -1 to -5 penalty depending on the target DC].

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

The simple fact that they can make the check in the first place is powerful enough to satisfy the class feature. No one else in the verse can even make Mage Hand do what an arcane trickster can do. I just think that making every check from the safety of 30ft is simply too powerful for a minor class feature. Thus my ruling: you can do it, but at Disadvantage [which is -1 to -5 penalty depending on the target DC].

Fair enough. I am not sure I am fond of that ability either, but I would have to see it used in a few sessions before taking any action. I generally go with what's written, until I see it being OP in play, before doing any nerfing. Fortunately I haven't really come across anything wildly OP in 5e yet.