Magic Item Question

[Kirowan]

Hi,

Now I know that using a wand takes as long as it normally takes to cast the spell that the wand has in it, but what about potions and scrolls? In the text for the activation of wands, this is specifically spelled out, but not for potions and scrolls. Do you just use the normal casting times (which is usually a standard action)?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Xeeker]

Hmm, I don't think they get detailed enough with scrolls to allow you to know how long it would take the character to read it, cause that's how long it would take for a scroll...potion I would assume just what standard action to quaf (sp) it? I think we've always treated things like healing potions to be a standard action, so you could drink then move.

 

[Xeeker]

Just to be more nit-picky on scrolls: I would personally say as a house rule that it would be 1 standard action, but if you want to get super-ultra-technical it'd be as long as it took to read it @ 6 seconds per round.

 

[Anubis]

Hi,

Now I know that using a wand takes as long as it normally takes to cast the spell that the wand has in it, but what about potions and scrolls? In the text for the activation of wands, this is specifically spelled out, but not for potions and scrolls. Do you just use the normal casting times (which is usually a standard action)?

Thanks,

Nick

1) It's spelled out for wands BECAUSE

2) it's different than potions and scrolls, the activation times for which ARE specifically spelled out.

Er, sorry, that may have sounded rude. No worries, I'm a "just the facts" type of guy.

See Player's Handbook page 141, Table 8-2: Actions in Combat. Under "Standard Action", you will find both "Drink a potion or apply an oil" AND "Read a scroll". As such, using potions, oils, and scrolls are ALWAYS standard actions. They spell out that wands require the normal casting time BECAUSE that is different than most other items.

Anyway, sorry if this sounds rude, I don't mean it. Hope the info clears everything up.

 

[Kirowan]

Thanks Anubis, I did RTFM. I was just making sure that wands were the exception and I wasn't reading it wrong.

Thanks again,

Nick

 

[Hypersmurf]

"Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise."

"Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does."

"Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

"Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) "

There is nothing under "Scrolls" about casting time.

So, where do we look for "the item description specifically states otherwise"? Is the general description of an activation method - Spell Trigger, or Spell Completion, for example - an item description?

I'd have to say no. I'd say that the description of Wands, or the description of scrolls, is the specific item description... since the activation time of a Wand reiterates the general activation time clause (casting a spell from an item takes the same time as the casting time of the spell)... which differs from the description of the activation method.

I'd suggest, therefore, that the general clause supercedes the Activation Method description, unless the item description says otherwise.

Since there is nothing under the description of Scrolls to suggest that the general clause does not apply, I submit that the activation time of a scroll is the casting time of the spell in question.

-Hyp.

 

[Kirowan]

That makes more sense Hypersmurf. What about potions though? The text does specifically say a standard action for potions and oils.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Kirowan]

I've got more questions for you Grand D&D Rules Master Hypersmurf if you're feeling up to it.

1. The first one is just out of curiousity. Why do you think that you have to pay material components and xp cost for prerequisite spells when creating magic armor but not magic weapons, rods, or wonderous items.

2. Also, if a ring has a prerequisite spell, do you have to pay the material component cost and the xp cost? It isn't clear. It talks about if the ring actually activates a spell, but not if it is just a prerequisite.

3. If you a creating a magic item with a prerequisite spell and said spell has a material component and/or xp cost, do you have to pay those for each day it takes to create the item? I mean, I know whatever spell you are using as the prerequisite isn't available during those days as if you cast it, so I would assume that you would have to pay for each day.

4. The spellcaster creating a magic item eats the cost of material components and xp costs for prerequisite spells, right? I basing this on Table 7-32, page 284, superscript 2 in the 3.5 DMG.

5. Don't you think the material component and xp cost entries for rings on Table 7-32 should have a multiplier of x100 since rings are usually unlimited use or continuous? I'm basing this on Table 7-33, superscript 5.

Thanks a bunch man,

Nick

 

[Anubis]

I've got more questions for you Grand D&D Rules Master Hypersmurf if you're feeling up to it.

Hahaha . . . He's not as smart as he thinks he is, seeing as he was wrong. Regardless of the wording of the parts he say, the book SPECIFICALLY states that activating a scroll is a standard action. This, in fact, supercedes the part he was reading. Thing about it: if you had to go with the casting time, why make activating scrolls a standard action instead of "action varies"? Dur . . .

So to put it simple, he was wrong. It's a standard action under ALL circumstances.

Anyway, I think I can answer your questions.

1. The first one is just out of curiousity. Why do you think that you have to pay material components and xp cost for prerequisite spells when creating magic armor but not magic weapons, rods, or wonderous items.

I think one or the other is a typo, as this would make no sense. I would say you have to pay for material components and XP components in all cases, not just in the case of armor. (The book also states you must pay these costs when making a potion, scroll, staff, or wand, so why should these be any different?)

2. Also, if a ring has a prerequisite spell, do you have to pay the material component cost and the xp cost? It isn't clear. It talks about if the ring actually activates a spell, but not if it is just a prerequisite.

I would say that it's implied that when creating ANY item with prerequisite spells with components, you have to pay for those components. Indeed, this one is not stated outright, but it is implied base on how all other items are done. The exception is if the item actually casts the spell, in which case you pay the XP or material component for each possible time the spell can be cast from the item.

There ARE, however, some problems with how the ring creation text is worded. They make it sound on page 286 as if the base price is 50 x the cost of material OR XP components, and the table seems to imply the same thing in a very unusual way. A small bit of study reveals that it's obvious the rule does not work that way. The 50 x part is for when it may be used up to 50 times, such as with a wand or staff (this is where all of these listings come from) . . . The Ring of Three Wishes, however, only works three times, and thus only costs 3 x 5 x the XP cost.

3. If you a creating a magic item with a prerequisite spell and said spell has a material component and/or xp cost, do you have to pay those for each day it takes to create the item? I mean, I know whatever spell you are using as the prerequisite isn't available during those days as if you cast it, so I would assume that you would have to pay for each day.

The answer is, always has been, and always will be NO. If the answer was yes, creating ANY item with costly material and XP components would be impossible as the XP cost would be way more than any spellcaster could ever handle. The book doesn't even imply that you pay per day of the creation. The wording in the old rules was unclear on this and many thought you DID pay per day, but 3.5 clears this up by removing the offending text. Now it just says you pay the costs for the components of the spell, and not "per day".

4. The spellcaster creating a magic item eats the cost of material components and xp costs for prerequisite spells, right? I basing this on Table 7-32, page 284, superscript 2 in the 3.5 DMG.

Um, this was answered in your last three questions. The part you're reading is talking about the added gp costs for material and XP components for spells ACTUALLY cast by items as opposed to just being prerequisites. If an item actually casts a spell, it increases the base price (but this does not affect creation time and costs at all, just the market price).

5. Don't you think the material component and xp cost entries for rings on Table 7-32 should have a multiplier of x100 since rings are usually unlimited use or continuous? I'm basing this on Table 7-33, superscript 5.

Thanks a bunch man,

Nick

This is correct and is stated directly.

 

[Camarath]

Since there is nothing under the description of Scrolls to suggest that the general clause does not apply, I submit that the activation time of a scroll is the casting time of the spell in question.

-Hyp.

From SRD
Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.