Magic Items Suggestions

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Interesting. Were I one of your players, I'd probably stay away from a flying mount, then, and get myself some winged boots. After all, why bother with a flying mount, if it's going to become a liability in nearly every encounter? :\

Every encounter?

Of course not, and it's silly of you to make that claim.

The real question is, "How often has the flying Paladin / Wizard / Whatever fallen when compared to the land-bound Rogue / Fighter / Whatever?"

The answer to that question is, "A lot more often." Land-bound things don't tend to fall very far or very often. Things that are flying have a lot more chances to fall, and therefore will fall a lot more often, and will generally fall farther as well.

Accordingly, 2,000+ gp and a ring slot is a huge investment for someone who can expect, at most, one fall of 30' or less per session. The cost ridiculously outweighs the benefit. For someone who's looking at potentially one fall of 70' per session, that ring seems a lot more worth its price.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Every encounter?

Of course not, and it's silly of you to make that claim.

Hardly. Let's look at the string of comments.

In other words, it's better for those people who expect to fall once in every great while, but not as good for someone who's going to be flying a lot - either through magic or on a flying mount.

No, that's not what I said at all. "Someone who's going to be flying a lot" is still going to want the token. Only someone who's being knocked off his mount on a regular basis is going to want the ring. And in my experience even PCs who use flying mounts in every encounter are only but rarely knocked off their mounts. Very rarely.

Unless you were suggesting that in your campaigns, "someone who is going to be flying a lot" is synonymous with "someone who gets knocked off their mount a lot"?

Comparitively speaking, yes.

Interesting. Were I one of your players, I'd probably stay away from a flying mount, then, and get myself some winged boots. After all, why bother with a flying mount, if it's going to become a liability in nearly every encounter? :\

Note that I said "nearly" every encounter, a statement derived from your affirmation that "someone who is going to be flying a lot" is synonymous with "someone who gets knocked off their mount a lot."

It's hardly a silly rationale, based on your own statements as it is.

The real question is, "How often has the flying Paladin / Wizard / Whatever fallen when compared to the land-bound Rogue / Fighter / Whatever?"

The answer to that question is, "A lot more often." Land-bound things don't tend to fall very far or very often. Things that are flying have a lot more chances to fall, and therefore will fall a lot more often, and will generally fall farther as well.

Accordingly, 2,000+ gp and a ring slot is a huge investment for someone who can expect, at most, one fall of 30' or less per session. The cost ridiculously outweighs the benefit. For someone who's looking at potentially one fall of 70' per session, that ring seems a lot more worth its price.

This is fine in your campaign, where people are likely to fall once per session. As I've stated, (and as seems to be Scion's experience as well), my experience has been that falling comes into play much, much less often, even for characters who fly all the time. That being the case, if there's a cheap way to pay for the "featherfall insurance plan" than 2000gp and a ring slot (which IMO is pretty cheap, but still an investment, not "ridiculously outweighs the benefit,") then nobody will buy the Ring of Featherfalling.

In short, I don't think 2,000gp and a ring slot is "ridiculous" at all. At even mid-levels, 2,000gp isn't much, and falling can be a big deal if it ever does occur. If there's a cheaper way, though, I might as well remove the Ring from my game. Having both the Ring and the token in my games is pointless, as PCs would never, ever, buy the Ring.

I already conceded that in a game where PCs fall a lot more often, the Ring might be worthwhile, since you might run out of tokens and not be in a position to buy more before you fall again.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"Comparitively speaking" is the important phrase. Falling twice is a lot compared to not falling at all.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

"Comparitively speaking" is the important phrase. Falling twice is a lot compared to not falling at all.

I disagree. Falling twice is still hardly any falling at all. Two tokens of featherfall and you're square. Why in the world buy the Ring of Featherfalling--paying 2,000gp and a ring slot--when you can pay a pittance and no slot at all?

That's really my only point. That having the tokens invalidates the existence of the ring. So, IMO, a DM either allows the tokens, accepting that he's basically providing an extreme discount for the effect granted, or he disallows the tokens and requires players to buy the ring, because he finds that cost commensurate with its effect.

Why not allow them, though? You just need to adjust the price to fit your campaign. If they're too cheap as is, just raise the price accordingly.

I suppose that if I had a player who was more concerned with the ring slot than the money, I might do this. I'd make the token rather expensive (not 2,000gp, but close to it,) its lack of a slot balancing out the fact that it's a one-use item. So a flyer with two rings could still have his insurance against falling, at a reasonable but not ridiculously cheap price, and a flyer who doesn't need the ring slot can just pick up the ring.

 

[outlier]

Sorry for this belated reply, but I'd say that tokens are no big problem. I see several points in their favor, having used them from both sides of the DM screen:

1) It's an item that *should* exist, unless it's infeasable in your campaign for some reason. At a fair price (whatever you think that is), *most* characters would prefer to buy just that level of protection, rather than an infinite amount afforded by the ring. An even better level of protection for many characters is the 1/day item - mages often want one of those if they're item crafters.

2) That said, a clever rogue (to give an example) can make pretty good use of featherfall for attacks from above & added options for mobility. At an appropriate level, it combines well with slippers of spider climbing, jumping and springing, etc. The ring is *not* just an insurance policy; it provides tactical options for the wearer as well.

2) Also, as previously mentioned, if you're flying on a regular basis, your foes will likely prepare themselves to deal with flying opponents,. You can count on having your mount shot out from under you periodically (if your DM is like me). I mean, it's usually a much easier target than you are in both senses of the word. Either flying mounts are common (so everybody prepares for them) or they are rare (in which case you build up a reputation -- and the BBEG's prepare for them).

3) The tokens as I've seen them described either function automatically (in which case you can't carry more than one) and you have problems if you & your flying mount try to stoop, or they require activation, which can be problematic when some baddie has neutralized both you and your mount (the usual reason for falling - my experience is that nobody 'falls off' their mount, given a level or two to skill up appropriately and buy the right gear. While I'm at it, I should mention that the look on a player's face when his elaborate 'can't fall off' harness/saddle has him bound to a dead flying buffalo at 150' is precious. )

All my opinions, of course, and highly dependent on how much DM's make a setting react to player actions.

 

[Krelios]

The Ring of Feather Falling is actually sort of a silly investment for most characters anyway. It's like telling someone in Nebraska, "I'm sorry, but all of insurance policies come with Volcano insurance and Tsunami insurance; yes, you have to pay more for those things that will probably never happen (and if they do, you're toast anyway)."

The point is, the only reason players buy Rings of Feather Falling is because there's not a cheaper alternative. They really don't need them unless they're in constant aerial combat (and even then, they probably don't). The tokens could have been created using the magical item creation guidelines a long time ago, and they are certainly not unbalancing.

 

[blargney the second]

Incidentally, there is a bit of information about the Feather Fall Talisman that isn't included with the item itself. It's found in the Falling section towards the beginning of the Sharn book.

Given that the talisman is caster level 1, it only functions for 1 round. You have to activate it (still an immediate action), but it requires a DC 10 Wisdom check to activate it within 60' of the ground to be effective.

-blarg