Magic system: Signature spells

[Primitive Screwhead]

Page 123 in the May playtest for OLD states that a magic user can have a number of signature spells equal to twice their Intellect.
The intent here might have been to help the Mage overcome being a MAG +1 tradition, but the result doesn't play out that way at my table. The non-Mage casters are stifled with this limit.

I recommendation that the magical traditions declare which stat gets used as a 'base stat' in order to level the playing field a bit, as follows:

A caster can memorize a number of 'signature spells' equal to twice their base stat:

Clerics uses CHR
Druids/necromancers/Diabolists uses WILL
Mages uses LOG


I think a good counterbalance to the Mage being a MAG +1 tradition would be to increase the number of spell lists they gain at each level. This fits the 'generalist' idea better than the current method.

 

[Sniperfox47]

I see a couple issues with that:

A) How exactly do you explain Charisma or Willpower helping memorize more spells? If anything I'd think they'd be mixed between logic (a là wizard) and intuition (a là sorcerer).

B) Even assuming they take NO other traditions that raise their INT, what are your casters doing that they need more than 6 signature spells at a time? Considering they can change them whenever they want, 6 is more than enough for 2 blasting spells, 2 healing\buff spells, and 2 utility spells [EDIT] heck, you don't even need to give them utility spells because for most of those you can afford to just take the minute... So 2 blast, 2 heal, 2 buff. [/EDIT] From our groups play tests I would argue that it gives a mage access to WAY more spells than he really needs, rather than others too few.

Finally, with the NEW changes to NEW, your stats have a base of 2 and 4 spells might be a bit too little for a basic caster, but I'd have to wait for the revisions to OLD before I can jump to hasty conclusions on that.

P.S. while it would still have the default of 4, a possible option for the NEW stats could be a number of signature spells equal to logic+intuition? Just throwing ideas out.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Yes, definitely need to see the revised stats and career progressions.. the primary driver of this was three casters in the group: Fire Mage with tons of signature spell options, Druid with a handful { 8...about the right number IMHO}, and the Ogre Cleric... with 4.

8 is about right, less would be okay if you could build 'boostable' signature spells. By this I mean something like "Fire-Bolt: Evoke Fire X, Gen 1. Deal damage dice to a single target within 30' equal to the number of additional MP spent on this spell"
But I prefer the planning aspect of having to decide what sort of spell to carry around...

Regarding issue A. Mainly its a mechanical issue with the Cleric being crippled due to stat adjustments. They are less flexible than a Mage because the rules base the number of signature spells on Logic. Generally the opposite is the case where mages are the 'specialist' and narrow down into one field while Clerics do all sorts of weird things.
So is this a bug or a feature? I am not sure.

 

[Morrus]

The problem with that is it becomes awkward when you've got grades in different traditions. Not undoable, but sufficiently clumsy that I've avoided it. Instead, I'll be using something more similar to how SPEED works in the current N.E.W. document - three attributes will help derive your signature spell list.

(LOG in O.L.D. is being called LORE - or LOR - BTW!)

 

[Sniperfox47]

(LOG in O.L.D. is being called LORE - or LOR - BTW!)

Spoiler

Ugh... What's wrong with one consistant name for a stat?

 

[Morrus]

Ugh... What's wrong with one consistant name for a stat?

Some stat names can throw off or enhance the immersion in some genres. For me, at least.

 

[Sniperfox47]

Spoiler

What's wrong with logic in a fantasy game though? Whether fantasy or SciFi a person's logic helps them solve puzzles and memorize patterns. If you're going to do that can you at least add a little sidebar in one of the books that says "these two are the same thing, if you're using both books pick one" or however you want to explain it? (Same with GP vs CR...) This is probably the topic for another thread though.

 

[Morrus]

What's wrong with logic in a fantasy game though? Whether fantasy or SciFi a person's logic helps them solve puzzles and memorize patterns. If you're going to do that can you at least add a little sidebar in one of the books that says "these two are the same thing, if you're using both books pick one" or however you want to explain it? (Same with GP vs CR...) This is probably the topic for another thread though.

I don't object to you naming the stats anything you want. For me, words have a feel to them beyond their literal meaning that doesn't quite fit sometimes.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

The problem with that is it becomes awkward when you've got grades in different traditions. Not undoable, but sufficiently clumsy that I've avoided it. Instead, I'll be using something more similar to how SPEED works in the current N.E.W. document - three attributes will help derive your signature spell list.

(LOG in O.L.D. is being called LORE - or LOR - BTW!)

Works good for me! Can you post the new method here?

 

[Morrus]

Works good for me! Can you post the new method here?

I'm still working on it.