Making Classes different but balanced

[Rabbitbait]

In terms of class mechanics, two things I have heard are:

The classes are now balanced - this is brilliant
The classes now all work the same way - this is vanilla and boring

What we need in 5E is a way of having classes remain balanced, while working very differently in gameplay. The big question is "how can this be accomplished".

I love the suggestion somebody mentioned on another thread that mages should take more than one round to cast big nasty spells (like fireball for example). This takes the mage back to the role of somebody who must be defended but has the most powerful effects.

I imagine a battle where a mage begins casting fireball, the enemy see this and move in to attack him or duck for cover before the spell is completed and the rest of the party desperately try and stop the baddies from getting at the mage. Then by the time the mage has finished casting the layout of the battlefield has changed which leaves the mage to very carefully choose where to place the explosion.

What about a rogue (dex fighter) - maybe they get more than one attack per round, not massively damaging in themselves if the battlefield is laid out in a way where the rogue can move around enough they can attack multiple enemies.

Fighters (Str Fighter) - big weapon goes smack with high damage against single targets. With the right powers/paths/trees/whatever these could have effects added like slow, daze, stun, immobilize etc.

Clerics - um, I don't like Clerics. I think we should fix the healing system instead. But I think if we went down this path following the pattern set by Warlords is a good example - Charisma based characters who inspire their friends and put fear in the hearts of their enemies.

There would be different ways that progression occurs for different class types through a mixture of talent trees, stacking feats, simple level based options or addons to basic abilities - all depending on what type of character you want to play.

What do you reckon? I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[Rabbitbait]

The big thing with each class is that each one should have their own learning curve. One of the fun parts of D&D is working out how to use your character well. If every character type has the same mechanics then it's just a bit too easy.

 

[foolish_mortals]

balancing isn't that important to me. Having cool things in the game are. I saw a "The One Ring" design video where the designer was talking about keeping the characters true to the setting. If Rangers and Noldor are more powerful than other characters, that's the way it is. Being true is cooler to me than some bland attempt at balance.

foolish_mortals

 

[DoctorNick]

balancing isn't that important to me. Having cool things in the game are. I saw a "The One Ring" design video where the designer was talking about keeping the characters true to the setting. If Rangers and Noldor are more powerful than other characters, that's the way it is. Being true is cooler to me than some bland attempt at balance.

foolish_mortals

The question for Dungeons and Dragons is: True to what?

 

[DM Howard]

OK, I'm going to weigh in on this and I know not everyone is going to agree with me.

Classes should not be balanced!

Hear me out. I think every class should have things that there are amazingly good at, so good that if you wanted to do that particular thing such as long range martial combat you'd be crazy to not pick a particular class. I do not like the homogenization that has occurred within 4E and it reminds me of how Blizzard made both factions and all the classes pretty much the same and able to do everything with almost equal ease.

That being said, I agree with the direction the OP is going, but I think every class should be its own special snowflake at something. I'm not a huge fan of all the little turn based status effects that 4E introduced and I think they can find a way to make the classes distinct and different without having to work with status effects.

I don't agree with the equalizing of non-divine classes that heal being on the same level as divine classes, I just don't agree with it but I do believe they should be able to fill that role but in a more limited and unique way.

 

[RangerWickett]

Main Page - Official TF2 Wiki | Official Team Fortress Wiki

Nine classes. Very different playstyles. Ridiculously well-balanced, and fun as hell.

 

[Stormonu]

Balancing the classes should just be looking at what they do in combat. It's how they participate over the course of the whole adventure that's important, not just that they're "kool in combat".

In a dungeon...

Fighters bring the hurt to foes. They protect the others from being overrun by the enemy. He can help the rogue by keeping foes occupied for the rogue to get a deadly shot or by applying force where the rogue's skill's fail through finesse. He helps the wizard by protecting him from the creatures that could easily take him out. [Eh, I can see the fighter needs some work - he's good at combat, but how does he really help the other three?]

The rogue/thief bring skills and talents. He provides the ability to sneak about and scout out the enemy or otherwise defeat them through finesse. He provide the ability to locate and disarm harmful traps in the way. He can help the fighter by putting the big hit on a foe that the fighter's got distracted.

The wizard brings the big boomstick or the ability to bypass one or two obstacles. He can make the fighter's job easier if the fighter can keep foes off him - but shouldn't be able to do it alone. He can help the rogue by augmenting his skills or overcoming obstacles the rogue can't bypass (and in the best situations, his way to overcome the obstacle should always be the second approach to the problem). He can help the cleric by lessening the damage the group will take (and thus the cleric doesn't have to do so much healing) or augmenting the cleric's abilities.

The cleric brings healing and buffs. He can help the fighter be stronger and deadlier, whilst protecting him from harm. He can help the wizard with insight into the troubles ahead. He can help the rogue by augmenting his skills. He can help the fighter by rushing into combat at his side, or providing buffs to augment the fighter's abilities.

When you unbalance this, that's when the game runs into problems. Characters who can do everything themselves, instead of needing a team effort destroy the troupe play of normal D&D.

For example, if the wizard can protect himself easily, solve every problem that normally would take a rogue, and heal and buff like the cleric, why does he need anyone else?