Making Natural 20 super fun

[marli]

I'm going to assume you're doing this from the start of an adventure with level 1 PCs fighting level 1 NPCs. I say that because, from what I'm reading, you could have a level 5-7 wizard w/ party fighting a level 6 Cave Bear(170hp, Bloodied 85) cast magic missle and instead of only doing 8 + Int, it does 85 damage if the crit is worded nicely. I think this should only be implemented if the power used was a daily or powerful encounter. Personally I would never do this, its too much drama to deal with. Think about it, you give one player the bonus for some total epic wording and now you've got a new standard and everyone after has to out epic the last guy.

1)you cant crit with a magic missile
2)yes, dramatic but ive done the maths. for every time you deal 85 damage with a pis-ant spell you will bloody a minion 5 - 10 times. but come on, if(ovoiding point 1)the mage blasts the cave bear, knowing its bloddied, theres a massive explosion, his remails splatter the rest of the party....thats got woah factor, for an average 1-2% extra damage output.
3)yep...out epic...it is a CRITCAL!...

 

[Iconik]

Nat 20's and nat 1's are over complicated. My house rules? If you roll a 20 you get to roll again. If you get a 20 on the second roll (and ppl have) it's auto-kill. If you don't roll a 20 on the second roll you just get max dmg with whatever it was you were doing.

Nat 1's are fun. I'm fairly good at coming up with stuff on the fly. Nat 1's are auto miss. Depending on the situation, certain things can happen. Usually never detrimental. Never damages an ally. I've had someone nat 1 on trying to climb a wall during a battle. I had him fall off and go prone. I've had someone nat 1 on a regular attack and drop their weapon. It's really not that difficult.

I bought a large metal d20 that PC's roll after rolling a natural 20.

I made a 1-20 "magic" and "Weapon" bonus chart that the player gets based upon the roll of the metal d20. The damage or effect gradually increases, but not until 17-20 does it become fairly significant. It's fun and the players love to get their hands on the large metal die.

I'd like to see this chart.

 

[buddhafrog]

I understand this is adding power to the PC - I'm not concerned about that. d20 attack rolls are rare enough that the effect is minimal. I DM many middle school age kids, so a few of the effects are slightly humorous. The effect of this bonus chart is awesome - when they roll the d20, there is great chear anticipation, all sets of eyes widen and are glued to the large metal dice. They love it. And this game is about having fun, so....

I let the PC read the additional effect and then I tweak it (or let them tweak it) so it best fits the story situation.

Critical Hit Bonus on Magic Attacks

1
Plus 1d6 damage / but your attack gives him increased +5 damage power

2
Plus 1d6 damage / but magic energy makes him grow 2 meters

3
Magic makes him go to the bathroom... awefully

4
Enemy glows and small fireworks shoot from his hair for 1d6 turns. He can not hide.

5
Your magic changes his voice to a little girl. He takes – 6 Charisma

6
His nose, ears, mouth and eyes change places – he takes -12 Charisma

7
Enemy glows brightly for the encounter, he takes – 2 AC

8
Magic thunder makes him deaf and he is dazed for one turn

9
One eyeball shoots out of his head and lands (you choose), he takes – 2 ATK

10
Magic energy sickens him. He vomits and is dazed until saving throw

11
Your magic weilds his feet to the floor – he is immobilized

12
Your attack magically transports him to a square 2d6 squares away. He is dazed until ST

13
Magic shrinks his arms or legs (you choose), –3 ATK/DAM

14
His armor is electric and he must remove it next turn or take ongoing 10 electric damage

15
Your attack shatters his weapon. The weapon will hit closest enemy within 6 squares for 1d6 damage

16
Magic energy shoots him 8 squares doing 2d6 damage. He is prone and dazed until ST

17
Plus 1d6 damage / Magic energy shoots through his eyes. His eyes explode and he is blinded

18
Plus 1d6 damage / Your magic dominates your enemy for one turn and you can give him one suggestion. After that, he is dazed until ST.

19
Plus 1d20 damage / as magic energy crackles in the air, he spasms helplessly and is stunned until ST. You get 1 immediate basic attack.

20
Instant DEATH – the remaining enemy is dazed by fear for 1 turn - ALL players get 1 basic immediate attack.

 

[buddhafrog]

Above was for magic attacks, below is for weapon attacks. An arrow and an mace would obviously have different effects - I let the player tweak the description. Again, this is in use with many middle school kids so a few are slightly humorous.
Critical Hit Bonus Damage Roll

1
Plus 1d6 damage / As you celebrate your great attack, he gets one immediate ATK – even if he is dying.

2
Your attack does extra 1d6 damage, but he is enraged and gets +2 ATK and +2 Dam

3
You cut off his little finger and it flies through the air sticking in (you choose)

4
Your attack makes him scream like a little girl. He is embarrassed and looses -4 Charisma

5
You cut his pants. They fall down to his ankles and he trips and is prone.

6
Your cut off his nose and scar his face – he takes -8 Charisma

7
You pierce his arm causing -2 ATK

8
You crush his ear and he is deaf, he is dazed for one turn.

9
Your hit pushes him move back 1 square – you gain one free shift

10
Your cut has made him bleed profusely. He takes –3 HP every turn until he has a successful heal check to stop the bleeding.

11
You crush his knees and he falls prone to the floor – he can not shift and is slowed.

12
You hit his hand, crushing his fingers, he drops his weapon and does -2 ATK/damage

13
You hit his head and he falls back two spaces – he is prone and dazed until ST

14
You crush his chest and damage his armor. He can't breath and is dazed until ST. He takes – 2 AC

15
Your attack breaks his weapon. The broken weapon will hit closest enemy within 6 squares for 1d6 damage

16
Plus 1d6 damage / You crush his arm and it hangs by his side. He must use the other arm (-4 ATK/damage).

17
Plus 1d6 damage / You hit his face, crushing his eye sockets - he is blinded.

18
Plus 2d6 damage / You cut off an arm or leg. The enemy must stop the bleeding or he will pass out in 3 turns. The nearest enemy is afraid and dazed for 1 turn.

19
Plus 1d20 damage / Crushing blow to head and the enemy falls to his knees and is stunned until ST. You get 1 immediate ATK.

20
Instant DEATH (you describe) – the enemy is stunned by fear for 1 turn and ALL players get 1 basic immediate attack

 

[buddhafrog]

The d20 I use is one of these monsters. It doesn't roll too well, but it's special none-the-less. I never let the players even touch this die unless it's for a Critical Hit Bonus Damage Roll.

 

[marli]

this is the along the idea i wanted, and it really sounds cool.
mine is more simple but the objective is the same.

 

[marli]

this is the along the idea i wanted, and it really sounds cool.
mine is more simple but the objective is the same.

 

[buddhafrog]

this is the along the idea i wanted, and it really sounds cool.
mine is more simple but the objective is the same.

Great, hope it helps. I'll tell you, there is a noticeable difference now when a 20 is rolled. There used be be a happiness, but now there is a lot more excitement around the table as everyone grabs for the d20 and stands up, leans over the table, waiting for the next roll.

The main potential drawback is it helping the PC's too much. A few weeks ago a 3rd level party ran into a cyclops. It was their most dangerous foe to date. On his second turn, the not-too-aggressive rogue ran from behind the column he was cowering, and used his daily Handspring Assault to leap on the cyclops back. Sure enough, he rolled a 20 and the players yelled/begged him to roll high again for the bonus roll because the players were legitimately scared - and he rolled a bonus 20. This was the first double-20 rolled, and the room erupted.

For my part, I acted upset that they killed the cyclops so easily. But really, I loved it! Dramatic and thematic! That story has been retold every time the group has gotten together since that encounter.

My loss? A cyclops encounter. But unbeknown to the players, I just added another difficult encounter that wasn't originally in the plans. It all evened out, but the rogue had his one gaming moment that he might remember forever.

 

[Jack Colby]

I like the idea, and there's no reason at all that criticals should be dealt by monsters as well as PCs. PCs and monsters are two different things, something 4E made much clearer than 3E.

Also, criticals are mainly a fun thing to add because people naturally get excited when they see a 20 come up on the die. Who gets excited when monsters roll a 20? Possibly the DM, but it's just not the same "all around the table" sort of thrill as when a PC does it.

 

[moxcamel]

I'm always a big fan of doing what works for your gaming group. So take my comments as just how I see it. Not trying to tell you how to play your game, just some food for thought.

Anyway, the big problem I have with big effects on criticals is that when you have 5 players, the odds of a natural 20 coming up is almost 23% every single turn. So during my carefully crafted encounter, during any given turn there's almost a 1 in 4 chance every turn that the odds will shift dramatically. To off-set that I could construct tougher encounters, but then on the fights where the dice just don't line up the PCs could be in very, very big trouble.

Critical failures are even worse. To paraphrase another poster, is it really all that heroic (or even realistic) for your fighter to have a 5% chance every turn to drop his sword, or for your ranger to have a 5% chance of breaking his bow string every turn? And just like the odds of one in your party of 5 to roll a natural 20, the odds of rolling a natural 1 are also about 23%. So, almost a 1 in 4 chance that if your wizard isn't tripping on his robe, your thief is tripping over his boots or your cleric drops his holy symbol or some other calamity. This is less like D&D to me, and more like The 3 Stooges.

One of the biggest things I love about 4e is how much mathematical "chaos" was removed from combat. When I played 3 and 3.5, I always felt like it was blind luck when an encounter went well instead of winding up too hard or too easy, because during one encounter the fighter could get lucky and take out half my mobs in a couple rounds, while another fight at the same CR he'd struggle just to keep from being overwhelmed. Maybe that's a comment on my DM'ing abilities, but I think it has a lot more to do with the maths staying in a tight range of sanity.

Finally, I'm a big proponent of "what's good for the player is good for the monster." If I'm going to allow special crit/fumble rules for the players, it's only fair to have them for the monsters. Otherwise it cheapens the wins for the players. ("...great fight, without those two very lucky criticals, things could have gone very differently for us, and let's not discuss how many 20s the bad guys rolled and just did normal damage...") I agree that players and monsters aren't the same thing, but when they're going toe-to-toe, they should have access to the same combat mechanics.

I think the 4e rule on critical hits (critical = max damage) is almost a stroke of brilliance. It both gives the player the satisfaction of dealing out a lot of damage, while keeping the numbers within the bounds of the encounter. Maybe a better crit mechanic will come along, but so far I think WotC got this one right.