Making the poor suckers earn it...

[godawful]

Now that I spend a good deal of time trying to come up with ways to make my player's lives miserable, i think i have a decent new idea, and wondered if anyone else has tried it. My high level players are gonna build a town (starting this weekend) and after dealing with this logistical nightmare, and after a couple of invading armies, i'm thinking the pc's (who will at some point act as lords) will have to hire out groups to patrol, scout, investigate etc. so that means opportunities to start new characters, yet keep continuity within the campaign.

ok, big deal right? well, how about if i make them start all new characters as commoners? where does the fighter get all that cash at level 1 for startup gear? where does the wizzie find a mentor? how does a rogue learn his trade?

so basically, they will have some street urchins, maybe a middle class person or 2, and they will have to start making money and finding their way in the world.

hehehe, show them how the other side lives. make them fish, hunt, trap, run errands etc for a few copper. no spells, no special anything, and rags or very simple clothes to wear. and a stick with a nail in it for a weapon. and a crappy bow.

ok so here's what i am wondering, well, concerned about, and how have you guys dealt with it, or what do you think? after getting a few levels in commoner, the effective character level of a level 1 (whatever) would actually be a bit higher hmmm? hitpoints would be a bit more also than for a completely new level 1 character.

so... any input/suggestions/experiences with this? i am thinking it will be a great roleplay opportunity (i hope)

 

[The Thayan Menace]

It's an intriguing idea. Your players will either love it or hate it; I doubt they will be indifferent on this one.

 

[jmucchiello]

Why start them at 1st level when you can go even lower? Shameless plug

 

[Starglim]

It seems to me that this could work with a system to trade in levels CR for CR, so a 4th level Commoner would become a 3rd level heroic character of an appropriate class.

Just off the top of my head, you could maybe look at the blackguard as a model, and grab some mechanics from d20 Modern Advanced Classes to set prerequisites for the heroic classes in feats or skill ranks (maybe a maximum hit points per level as a prerequisite for wizard).

 

[Starglim]

Why start them at 1st level when you can go even lower? Shameless plug

"Hamlet of Thumble" and Goodman Games' "Legends are Made, Not Born" are a couple of adventures you could look at.

 

[Eye Tyrant]

I have a PC in a game that started like this. There was a ton of grumbling, though I liked the idea. Most of the complaining came from the aspiring spellcasters. I forget exactly how it was handled, but some of the things that I remember are as follows:

If you took a Feat like Martial Weapon Proficiency or Medium Armor Proficiency, and then later became a Fighter (who gets it for free) you got your Feat back to spend on something else, but it had to be associated with your class (and in the Fighter example it had to come from the Bonus Feat list).

HPs were skipped at the first "real" class level. So when I was a Comoner2, Expert1, Warrior1 and then became a Fighter1, I didn't get to roll for HPs. I already had more then 20 or so HPs IIRC. I forget exactly how this worked, and basically just accepted it (It's the only game I've been able to actually be a PLAYER in years).

The Spellcasters were happy when they finally got to pick up a level in Adept and even happier when they got their "real" level...

Suggestion: I wouldn't make them start as Commoners. Allow them to start the game as an Adept, Warrior, or Expert. Everyone will likely pick Expert at first level for the skills, but maybe not. This lowers the power level and makes them have to struggle a little, but they will still have a sense that they are not being outright screwed. Now if you still want to make them play Commoners, I would make sure to a) Keep things interesting, and b) Level them up fairly quickly (like at the end of the first session give a level, even if it is just in Commoner or one of the other NPC classes).

Again, I didn't mind starting as a Commoner because I hadn't played in so long, but I am the exception by far. If you do start them as Commoners expect them to complain the whole time until they get some levels.

 

[domino]

Personally, I'd hate it. I don't play games to live a normal, miserable life.

Now, it's possible to run a fun game with low level NPC classes, certainly.

But it doesn't sound like you're doing that. It sounds like the "adventures" will be "spend 6 hours fishing to get enough food for your family" or "chop down some wood to not freeze to death come the winter" or "scrape together a few coppers to get new shoes to replace the ones with no heel, sole, or toe."

I already play a game like that. It's called "Work." I don't want to do that AGAIN for fun.

 

[Nyeshet]

I wouldn't do it that way. I would instead have each take a level of one of the following: Expert, Warrior, or (maybe) Aristocrat. They awaken having no memories of their past beyond their basic skills / feats (ie: someone with ranks in Open Lock knows they have that skill). Also, everything of worth they may have had is gone. Leaving the tavern whose floor they had found themselves upon, they find the village itself in shambles - most of the buildings have burnt down.

Asking about, they discover that the local band of bandits made an attack the prior night. The three were travellers who had stopped by the tavern for a drink and perhaps a room for the night. They were knocked out during the fight, the bandits taking their purses, tools, weapons - anything of worth. (The characters were having a drink, and so did not have thier armor on at the time - assuming they had any to begin with).

The village is used to the attacks, but this last one was far worse than normal. The survivors have decided to abandon the village. They are gathering what little there is left to gather to make the journey to the nearest larger village or small town, hoping to find work and a home before the winter sets in. (Currently it is early autumn.)

So now we have a group of PCs - strangers to the villagers and each other, having neither weapons nor armor nor tools nor equipment of any sort. The villagers are taking all their stores of food with them for the journey, but they can spare enough for perhaps a week's rations for each PC. The PCs may be able to find some small weapons about (a dagger, a sling, a staff, a club, etc), but larger and more complex weapons are not present. They can travel with the villagers or they may strike out on their own.

Their skills and feats will be important as they lack both magic and tools. Ranks in Craft, Profession, and Perform - considered unimportant by most unless needed by a class feature or as a pre-req, are now of paramont importance as a source of gaining wealth (however meager by standard considerations) and perhaps creating tools / weapons / etc.

I might also consider halving their skill points - stating that this is effectively a zero level and so their skill points are only 2* (not 4*, as typical for first level). Upon attaining first level they gain double the normal allotment of skill points to better reflect this. Also, with their first level gain they are allowed to choose PC classes they meet the pre-reqs for. Wizards, for instance, may require a couple ranks in Spellcraft and Know (arcane), while Bards need Perform skills, Fighters need a +1 BAB (from Warrior, the only NPC class with good BAB progression), etc.

It could be an interesting campaign, and the lack of memories grants several possible hooks (former / unknown enemies, family searching for them - perhaps with troubles of their own, guards in some towns on the lookout for them for crimes they cannot recall, etc).

 

[Evilhalfling]

Im working on a similar idea for a convention game -
all players are NPC classes but they are all 3rd level, and respected dwarven craftsmen.
the warrior actually has an advantage, mostly because he has combat related stats and feats.
They have crap equipment, because all their wealth is tied up in inventory and buildings. Magic items? Ha!

 

[SweeneyTodd]

Maybe pitch it to your players, and see if they find it interesting?

That seems like a necessary prerequisite.