Making untrained checks in trained only skills

[Morrow]

I'm trying to put together a list of things that would allow a character to make skill checks with trained only skills in which she doesn't have any ranks. I'm aware of:

• Jack of All Trades (Complete Adventurer feat)
• Third Eye Improvisation (Magic Item Compendium)

What other options are out there?

 

[Nedz]

For knowledge skills you can make general knowledge checks or, if you are a Bard, Bardic knowledge checks. But these are ways around the problem.

 

[irdeggman]

For knowledge skills you can make general knowledge checks or, if you are a Bard, Bardic knowledge checks. But these are ways around the problem.

But the general knowledge check (an intellignece chack) only yields "common" information.

Untrained: An untrained Knowledge check is simply an Intelligence check. Without actual training, you know only common knowledge (DC 10 or lower).

 

[sellars]

allow a character to make skill checks with trained only skills

The question that comes to mind is: Why would you like to do that? Allowing the roll I mean.

I can see sense in having the players explain how they solve a certain issue, and from that derive some generic roll if needed. But otherwise, why the focus on a roll?

(not to be rude or anything, just being curious)

 

[aboyd]

Living Greyhawk has a free book sample that includes the Leech Ghost Skill spell, which allows you to use a ghost's skill ranks instead of your own.

Dragon Magazine #335 offers Loresong, a 1st-level bard/sorcerer/wizard spell that allows you to select one skill to use untrained. It also gives a small bonus to that skill, so you have a chance at it. Unfortunately, it can't be cast on allies, requires 1 minute to cast (!!!), and lasts only 1 round/level.

Wieldskill, cleric level 1, in Magic of Faerun, and Player's Guide to Faerun. Lets you pick 1 skill and make untrained checks with it.

Understand Device, cleric level 3, in Magic of Faerun, and Player's Guide to Faerun. Lets you make untrained Disable Device checks. I have no clue as to why someone would choose this limited level 3 spell over the unlimited level 1 Wieldskill spell.

Find Traps from core = You can use the Search skill to detect traps just as a rogue can.

Appraising Touch from the Spell Compendium sorta removes the limitations of the appraise skill for the untrained.

 

[aboyd]

(I should note that I do not allow Wieldskill or anything in the Faerun books in my campaign. However, I secretly use it when creating custom magic items. I've found it's a good baseline for trying to figure out how much adding a feat or skill ability should cost, and it's really nice for making exotic weapons that don't need a feat to use.)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

For knowledge skills:

Ancestral Knowledge from Races of Stone (dwarf feat) lets you make knowledge checks untrained. It also lets you use wis instead of int ,which is why my dwarf clerics with Knowledge Devotion love it so much.

Lore of the Gods spell from C.Champion lets you make a check untrained. Downside is, doing so ends the spell. Otherwise, for the duration it gives you a massive knowledge check bonus.

 

[aboyd]

Worthy of note is that Lore of the Gods only works for Knowledge checks. What's really cool is that it lets you retry a Knowledge check you already failed. That's huge, because if you follow the RAW, it's intended that once you fail a check you've failed for life. No retries on level up, no retries when you put more ranks in it, nothing. But the spell undoes that limitation. Of course if your DM think that the RAW is kinda dumb in regard to the mechanics of the Knowledge skill, then the utility of the spell is lessened.

 

[Runestar]

The question that comes to mind is: Why would you like to do that? Allowing the roll I mean.

I can see sense in having the players explain how they solve a certain issue, and from that derive some generic roll if needed. But otherwise, why the focus on a roll?

(not to be rude or anything, just being curious)

Some skills have fixed DCs, so there is little point pumping it past a certain stage.

So with enough modifiers, you might be able to succeed on those skills even without needing to invest any ranks in them.

For example, it is a flat dc15 tumble check to avoid an AoO while moving. With jack of all trades, a magic item granting a +10 competence check to tumble and 18 dex (or some combination granting +14 to tumble), you auto-succeed.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Worthy of note is that Lore of the Gods only works for Knowledge checks.

Yeah. That header, "for knowledge skills"? That was referring to the entire post.

What's really cool is that it lets you retry a Knowledge check you already failed. That's huge, because if you follow the RAW, it's intended that once you fail a check you've failed for life. No retries on level up, no retries when you put more ranks in it, nothing. But the spell undoes that limitation. Of course if your DM think that the RAW is kinda dumb in regard to the mechanics of the Knowledge skill, then the utility of the spell is lessened.

Heh, I forgot about that part! My dwarf cleric never really ever failed a knowledge check (cripes, by level 9 he had like a +18 untrained with Lore of the Gods).

I allow retries when you increase your ranks in the skill, since to me that represents more learning / doing more research. I'd hope most DMs don't religiously follow the RAW and insist that you can never learn new things. Or, excuse me... I guess if you ran around with your fingers in your ears yelling "la la la!" to block out someone asking you something that could trigger a knowledge check on something you're probably not yet informed enough on to answer so as to not eternally doom yourself to not knowing it, I guess the strict RAW intepretation works just fine.