males playing females and the other way around, opinions?

[Jeff Wilder]

For those who don't think male players do a good job accurately portraying female characters: How, specifically, do you distinguish a well-portrayed female character from a poorly-portrayed one?

The latter creeps me out or offends me. (You won't be saying that subjectivity is unfair, I hope?)

 

[Wednesday Boy]

I've played female characters and have no issues if other players want to play opposite gender characters. When I play female characters I know I'm not accurate in roleplaying any of the nuances of being a woman. I play my characters based on their background and personality and play them as the hero that they are, regardless of their gender. But the games I play in aren't hard character dramas. It boils down to sometimes I think my flying, thunderbolt wielding hero would be cooler as an African goddess than a Norse god.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The mathematical definition of infinity can't be used here as "infinite" is not being used mathematically. The choices at the chinese buffet are infinite, but if you take away all the beef. I'll be pissed.

The vaunted "chemical" differences between men and women are less distinct than you think. It's much more the result of socialization, which means that it is far from binary. Saying more will violate board rules on politics and stuff.

 

[El Mahdi]

...The choices at the chinese buffet are infinite, but if you take away all the beef. I'll be pissed...

But take away only the female beef, and you'd never even notice...

 

[WHW4]

The vaunted "chemical" differences between men and women are less distinct than you think. It's much more the result of socialization, which means that it is far from binary. Saying more will violate board rules on politics and stuff.

Well, whatever the source of the differences, they are still there. I think that's the big factor in how we generally decide what is good or bad RP with respect to gender, is all I was saying.

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Nork, I think you are really onto something. I'll admit I do alot of self-projection through my characters. Most of my characters are some little piece of me Biggie-sized to unrecognizable proportions. But I still know where the motivation comes from. Not so much investment in the character's longevity as just a very relatable comfortability with the character. "Of course I know what the character would do; it's me!"

Counter to that, the guy in our group who regularly plays female characters has always used the maxim "It's just a piece of paper." So, there's that level of disconnect for him I bet.

 

[ffanxii4ever]

As a DM many times more than I play, obviously I create and run women fairly regularly, for a variety of different reasons.
However, looking at my players play characters, I let some (most actually) play whatever they want, by some I don't let them because I know that they will not be able to pull it off in a mature manner.
One incredibly... awkward and creepy experience was actually perpetrated by the token female player of the group. Evidently her idea of playing a male meant playing an oversexed, bondage-loving pervert who had a sexual relationship with his sword's scabbard. So... yeah, I only disallow certain people from doing the cross-gender thing, I don't do a blanket ban.

 

[ExploderWizard]

No worries on either side of the screen. When playing with a well adjusted mature group of people it isn't an issue.

 

[Dausuul]

The latter creeps me out or offends me. (You won't be saying that subjectivity is unfair, I hope?)

Not unfair, but not exactly enlightening. Can you come up with some examples of characters you've seen that triggered this response, and others that didn't?

The reason I ask is that I don't see a lot of difference between playing a male or a female character. Some days I write down an M on the character sheet and other days I write down an F. It's mostly an aesthetic choice, and I have been known to let the dice decide. I play them pretty much the same. Some are honorable, some are sneaky, some are kind, some are cruel.

So it seems weird to me that folks get all tied up about whether men can "accurately" portray female characters. I mean, I'm sure there are some biological differences between male and female brains, but no one has yet teased out just what effects those differences have, and it's pretty clear they're overwhelmed by environment and upbringing. The human brain is a very malleable thing. Maybe my female characters are atypical for their society, but my male characters aren't exactly run-of-the-mill working joes either.

I suppose it could get more challenging when wading into the thickets of sex and romance, but I don't usually explore my PCs' sex lives in much... uh... depth.

(That said, you do get the guys who make super-slut female characters as a way to indulge their own sexual fantasies, and yeah, that's skeezy and I don't want it at my table. I'm here to kill monsters, wreck property, and save the world, not make amateur porn. But my experience has been those are a minority compared to the guys who just say, "Huh, I think I'll make a female character today.")

Evidently her idea of playing a male meant playing an oversexed, bondage-loving pervert who had a sexual relationship with his sword's scabbard.

A nice little illustration of my point. It's not just male players who create skeezy sex-fantasy PCs...

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Maybe I'm just insane, but when people are massive creephats I don't ban their characters, I decide not to play with massive creephats.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Not unfair, but not exactly enlightening. Can you come up with some examples of characters you've seen that triggered this response, and others that didn't?

I don't think so. I've never been in a situation with a man playing a woman where the roleplaying didn't creep me out.

BTW, I keep harping on the subjectivity thing, because I think it's the only truly good argument for my position, and I'm not going back on that except to tell a brief story:

I used to be heavily into MUDding. (For you kids, MUDs were Wow without any graphics. Yes, that's right ... no graphics. At all. Now shut up and get off my lawn.) As a MUDder, I interacted with scores of characters, mostly male and some female. Some of the female characters' "roleplaying" (roleplaying on a MUD, like roleplaying in WoW, was the exception, not the norm, thus the quotes) creeped me out or offended me, and some didn't.

Eventually I became an administrator of a couple of MUDs, with access to player information (for legitimate reasons, including social ones). With no exceptions that I can recall -- admittedly it was 20 years ago -- the players of the creepy or offensive female characters were dudes, and the players of the non-creepy, non-offensive female characters were not. I was able to, using the "creepy or offensive" test, identify dudes-playing-chicks with no objective knowledge of their actual gender.

Yeah, yeah. Here's the punchline: I was playing a female character. (I'd been given a higher-level female character and found that chicks got in-game help from guys. So I creepily and offensively pretended to be a chick. The second punchline? Aside from claiming to be a Real Live Gurl, I behaved 100 percent like myself. Nerds online, then as now, really, really like a girl (or "girl") who's into cyberpunk, D&D, and comic books.)

The reason I ask is that I don't see a lot of difference between playing a male or a female character. [...] I play them pretty much the same.

Given that, why not play your own gender, even if only to avoid the "he -- wait, she -- wait, are you female?" issue?