Malhavoc copy/paste eased

[Elephant]

I will not purchase a DRM-crippled pdfs so long as DRM-free alternatives exist. If all d20 publishers went to DTRPG, I would substantially reduce my RPG budget. As it is, the publishers who maintain a long-term commitment to DRM-free products stand to benefit a substantial amount from my purchases for the next couple of years.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Due respect, Joe, I don't think that is likely to happen. It seems their primary business model is to sell products by companies that won't live without some guarantee that their work won't be copied.

Well, being that the supposed guarantee is trumpted by a 15 minute Google search, I'd say their primary business model is screwed.

 

[johnsemlak]

When 300+ people say they're not going to buy your product and the average sales for the products are rarely higher than 500, you'd better be paying attention.

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That's a very convincing point, but could I offer some observations?

1. Have 300+ people actually said they're not going to buy it? Perhaps so, I'm not sure.

2. Posting on a messageboard that you're not going to buy something doens't mean you'll not change your mind, and I'll speculate that some people will do just that. That's the nature of the internet--It's easy to point,click and buy; it's easier to post a hyperbole-infested rant.

3. If the target audience is only 500, there's a lot of room for improvement. It's possible that DriveThruRPG will do so. They're offering a number of products previously unavailable as PDFs.

 

[d20Dwarf]

What I'm hoping is that if enough people show those publishers that DRM doesn't give them any guarantees that their work won't be copied and that it actually reduces sales compared what they would be without DRM, some of the publishers may become more comfortable with the uncomfortable fact that, although they own the copyright, they never own the copies.

It would cost too much money, but I'd say you should just take an hour and crack every pdf on their site.

Perhaps you could make the Ridiculous Challenge. They give you access to all their pdfs and 24 hours, if you can crack a set number of them in that time frame, they give them to you and discard this ludicrous system. Heck, if they don't want you to do it, give it to a random user. After all, they believe that their site is only for the technically advanced, right?

 

[Psion]

That's a very convincing point, but could I offer some observations?

1. Have 300+ people actually said they're not going to buy it? Perhaps so, I'm not sure.

I imagine he's saying that is how many replied "no" to "Voice of Reason"'s poll on the general page.

 

[johnsemlak]

I imagine he's saying that is how many replied "no" to "Voice of Reason"'s poll on the general page.

AH, ok, well, it's 345 at this point, so, and that's not including people who have expressed similar opinions at RPGNet and other places.

However, I'd venture to guess some of those people might not be PDF customers anyway.

 

[jgbrowning]

That's a very convincing point, but could I offer some observations?

1. Have 300+ people actually said they're not going to buy it? Perhaps so, I'm not sure.

According to the poll here 300+ people said they wouldn't buy. The ratio is something like 86% not buy and 14% to buy. I have to take people at their word, although I wouldn't be surprised to find some relenting to get something they want badly enough. Also, some responded who never buy PDF's so that's a skew as well. It's not scientific, but I think there's value there anyway.

2. Posting on a messageboard that you're not going to buy something doens't mean you'll not change your mind, and I'll speculate that some people will do just that. That's the nature of the internet--It's easy to point,click and buy; it's easier to post a hyperbole-infested rant.

Heh, very true. I think however, that unlike most hyperbole-infested rants these hyperbole-infested rants may actually coming from the people who buy electronic products. It's far from scientific, but the % of people upset in this case is probably a higher % when compared to other cases since internet using, electronic-pdf buying people are the one's who're doing most of the serious ranting because what they want out of electronic products is not being provided.

I guess what I'm roundabout getting to is that i think the people who are doing the bitching in this case really are the best potential customers for this new site because they're fully receptive to the PDF medium for gaming products because they're already purchasers. Unlike most hyperbole-ranting posters.

When someone says they've purchase every single Malhavoc PDF product but they're not going to buy any more, that's really harsh. And he should be taken very seriously because he and people like him are the current heart of the PDF of the market. Repeat customers. I'm sure James at rpgnow.com has the data to back this up, but he's said that once someone starts purchasing PDFs, it's much easier for them to continue purchasing than it is to get someone to purchase for the first time.

3. If the target audience is only 500, there's a lot of room for improvement. It's possible that DriveThruRPG will do so. They're offering a number of products previously unavailable as PDFs.

You're right. 500 leaves a lot of room for improvement. This is why I want the site to succeed because growing the PDF industry would be awesome, just like Monte says. But if the majority of the products DTRPG is offering aren't already available as pirated copies, I'd be very surprised. They need to offer them better than how they were previously being offered as pirated copies. The free Exhalted Core book is cool, but the Exhaulted Core book was already free on-line for anyone who wasn't worried about WW rights.

I think the site would have had a smashing reception had they used open PDFs and had prices more in-line with the existing market. But the pricing for many products was done with "don't piss off the brick and morter retailers" more than anything else. Which I find boggling. If you're worried about the retailers, just don't go PDF. If you go PDF don't shoot your PDF sales in the foot by providing first impressions to those important new potential purchasers that gaming PDFs have limited use compared with what PDF can actually do and that the prices are ridiculous as well.

It would cost too much money, but I'd say you should just take an hour and crack every pdf on their site.

Perhaps you could make the Ridiculous Challenge. They give you access to all their pdfs and 24 hours, if you can crack a set number of them in that time frame, they give them to you and discard this ludicrous system. Heck, if they don't want you to do it, give it to a random user. After all, they believe that their site is only for the technically advanced, right?

It would probably be a good eye-opener for some of their customers, but I think many, if not most, already know this.

As for me doing it? Naw... I'm sure I'm not making many new publisher friends by being as outspoken as I am about this already, no matter how polite I'm trying to be. No need for me to stir the hornets nest even more.

joe b.

 

[johnsemlak]

Too little, too late.

Too late?

Jeez, this has only been going on for a couple of days.

 

[Felon]

I think the site would have had a smashing reception had they used open PDFs and had prices more in-line with the existing market. But the pricing for many products was done with "don't piss off the brick and morter retailers" more than anything else. Which I find boggling. If you're worried about the retailers, just don't go PDF. If you go PDF don't shoot your PDF sales in the foot by providing first impressions to those important new potential purchasers that gaming PDFs have limited use compared with what PDF can actually do and that the prices are ridiculous as well.

So is the bottom line really "don't do PDF if you're looking to make a profit"? I know many PDF publishers have already made the point that the profit margins are small at best.

I think all these people expecting PDF publishers to "wise up" and stop using DRM are kidding themselves. When the publishers wise up, they'll just stop wasting their time on PDF's altogether.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The point as far as I can see is 'you don't get to be a successful RPG seller by pandering to the people who make the games -- you get to be one by pandering to the people who *buy* the games.'

DT is concerned with appeasing the big houses, hoping that those big names will bring in the new pdf customers. They're probably right to a certain extent. But these new customers, and the hundreds of people already buying, will be alienated by the copyright protection.

In addition, they fail to realize and adapt to the current cultural climate. Rather than giving the customer the best bang for the buck, they're giving the publisher the secure rights, and customers can smell that kind of pandering -- they know they're not first on DriveThru's list, they know they're not the #1 consideration, and it's because of *that*, because of their willful alienation of their customers, that I am turned off.

Oh, great customer service is all well and good, but the problem lies within the underlying philosophy of the company itself, not just in how they treat those who have problems.