Many Shot and Rapid Shot.

[Egres]

From the Main 3.5 FAQ:

One of the players in a campaign that I run took the
Manyshot feat from the Epic Level Handbook. His character
gets three attacks if he takes the full attack action, from a
base attack bonus of +6/+1 and the Rapid Shot feat. He
claims that with Manyshot he can fire six arrows as a fullround
action. I say he can’t, since the feat applies only to
standard actions. I think that the feat allows him to fire two
shots during a standard action as opposed to the usual
single shot that is allowed. Does Manyshot apply to full
attack as well as standard actions? I would greatly
appreciate it if you could shed some light on the situation.

You’re right about Manyshot. It allows the character to
shoot two or more arrows as a standard action. It does not allow
the character to fire two or more arrows in place of a single
attack. Standard actions can’t be combined with full attacks,
nor are they part of a full attack.
The example character has a base attack bonus of +6; with
the Rapid Shot and Manyshot feats, the character has the
following options:
• Fire one arrow as a standard action (at +6).
• Fire two arrows as a standard action (at +2—the second
printing of the Epic Level Handbook says the penalty for
Manyshot is –4, not –2 as stated in the first printing).
• Fire two arrows as a full-round action (+6/+1).
• Fire three arrows as a full-round action (+4/+4/–1, with
Rapid Shot)

 

[Fisk]

One more question


Would the quick draw effect the hasted shot in that the hasted shot would be fired at -1 modifier do to quick draw ?

 

[Jdvn1]

Quick Draw would not affect the hasted shot in any way.

 

[kenobi65]

BTW, you don't need Quick Draw to fire multiple arrows in a round. If you're using a bow, the only time Quick Draw would even come into play is if you didn't already have the bow in-hand at the beginning of your turn.

 

[Fisk]

I read your responses and thought ...."What the hell are these guys talking about... Why are they even bringing up quickdraw?"


Ha...

I meant Rapid shot. Would The rapid shot ealier give a -2 modifier on the hasted shot?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I
I meant Rapid shot. Would The rapid shot ealier give a -2 modifier on the hasted shot?

Yep!

Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a –2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

 

[Jdvn1]

Oh. Hah.

Yeah, I think all your attacks would take the -2.

 

[Kaffis]

Egres posted an excellent summary of the options available to such a character.

Basically, Manyshot is the inferior option provided you don't have special circumstances which limit you to a standard action. Rapid shot actually gains you an extra arrow (and one that's likely to hit, to boot) with a flat penalty. Manyshot doesn't increase the number of arrows fired, it just compresses the time it takes to fire them.

There are some cases where manyshot really shines, though. Surprise rounds, scouts (skirmish requires more than a 5-foot move, thus limiting to standard actions to gain the skirmish dice and AC), shot-on-the-run (use to duck in and out of cover while shooting!), and while retreating from or advancing to melee are generally where manyshot displays its strengths.

One more note on manyshot: 3.5 manyshot is a -2 penalty per arrow, not a flat -4 penalty as the 3.0 Epic was errata'd to.

It's still a scout's best friend, and more than handy for a mobile archer. You just have to make sure you've got the BAB to still hit what you shoot at. Now if only I could find a way to trick my DM into letting me spread my manyshot among multiple targets...

And I'll close with a random gripe about rapid shot: rapid shot is essentially TWF for archers. Why isn't there a mechanic to allow rapid shotters to get additional cascading attacks at high BAB's, akin to Improved and Greater TWF? It's always seemed a glaring omission to me. TWF styles grant extra attacks as a trade-off for using poor(er) damage weapons instead of excellent two-handed damage. Archery is similarly limited in damage, but it's equivalent compensation feat doesn't have any follow through. Damage potential of 20th greatsword fighter against low AC opponents: 4*(1d12+2*STR), or 4d12+8*STR. Damage potential of 20th GTWF fighter against low AC opponents: 4*(1d8+STR)+3*(1d6+STR), or 4d8+3d6+7*STR. Not bad comparison there (and I'm ignoring extra feat stuff like bastard sword primary, etc for simplicity). Damage potential of an archer fighter against low AC opponents: 5d8 from range. Huh? Ok, throw 'em a bone and work to keep two stats high, and you can toss some mightiness in there for 5d8+5*STR. That's still quite the hefty penalty to take in exchange for range, particularly when you consider you can't power attack. TWF trades three feats for better minimum damage (thanks to more, smaller dice) with a ballpark comparable average damage to the feat-less two-handed approach. Archery dumps 2 feats (impractically -- I don't know anybody who relies on archery and doesn't take precise shot) into being horribly less scaleable. Range itself is a mixed blessing -- as I've noted, you sacrifice things like power attack, combat expertise, flanking, and open yourself to things like friendly fire into melee AoO's if something does close on you -- to gain some pretty narrowly applied intangibles like an offense against flying creatures/mages.

Or is there something I've missed? Sorry after the fact for the hijack, but the original musing on manyshot/rapid shot was thoroughly answered, so I figure shifting gears isn't too out of place.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are some cases where manyshot really shines, though. Surprise rounds, scouts (skirmish requires more than a 5-foot move, thus limiting to standard actions to gain the skirmish dice and AC), shot-on-the-run (use to duck in and out of cover while shooting!), and while retreating from or advancing to melee are generally where manyshot displays its strengths.

Except, of course, that Manyshot doesn't use the Attack action (it's a distinct standard action), and Shot on the Run requires one to use the Attack action with a ranged weapon.

The two can't be combined, any more than you can use Shot on the Run with Scorching Ray.

-Hyp.

 

[KerlanRayne]

Now if only I could find a way to trick my DM into letting me spread my manyshot among multiple targets...

Ahh, you're looking for Greater Manyshot in the XPH. It lets you do just that. Use the SRD link in my sig and go to the Psionic -> Feats section. It's a General feat so no psionics are needed to use it.

KerlanRayne