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D&D 5E Martial Characters vs Real World Athletes

Capricia

Banned
Banned
One of the things that seems to be a big concern to a lot of players is that martial characters be "realistic". That is, whatever characters do, it should be something that a person in the real world could also do. If you have a character that can jump 10 feet into the air or lift a ton, that's wuxia. And it breaks DnD for some people. Unless, you know, those abilities are magical. In which case, there isn't a problem.

So, decided to compare and see how close 5e's nonmagical classes can compete with the real world's athletes.

First up, strength! A character can lift up to 600 pounds with 20 strength. The world record for the deadlift, however, is an impressive 1055 pounds! So round one to the real world. Note that the Totem Barbarian can go the bear path which lets him lift an impressive 1200 pounds, buuuut

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That's relying on magical fuel, which is cheating.

Next up, speed! For this, let's go with the Rogue. Cunning action means that they can move and then Dash twice if they focus just on hustling. So that's a total of 90 feet over six seconds when the rogue goes into a full sprint! Since each round is six seconds long, that means our Rogue is traveling at...10.2 miles per hour. In the real world, the fastest sprint is at a healthy 27.44 miles per hour. Ouch. Round two goes to the real world. Again, there's the monk who can go extra fast, but

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Again, Monks are explicitly magical in nature and so not qualified to compete. For the record though, a level 18 monk can burn their ki while dashing for an incredible 180 feet per round...which is still only 20.4mph, well short of the record.

Next up, jumping! For the high jump, with a ten foot running start, a 20 strength fighter can jump an impressive 8 foot over the ground! Meanwhile, the world record is...8 feet, 1/2 inch. So close. When it comes to the long jump, our fighter gets aided by the ever reliable Remarkable Athlete, which adds an extra five feet to their normal twenty, for a total of 25 feet. Unfortunately, in the real world athletes are even more remarkable, and the record stands at 29 feet.

What about swimming? Swimming simply halves your speed, which sounds pretty fast if you're in the water! A rogue can glide through the water at an impressive 5.1mph. But...the world record is 5.3. Nope. No good there either.

Of course, it's not all about movement and lifting. Fighters are skilled! They can use weapons just flat out better than anyone else! Well, while fighters can throw a javelin 120 (if they accept disadvantage on the check) in the real world, javelins have been thrown as far as 375 feet. Without the sharpshooter feat, a fighter is going to have Disadvantage on archery shots at a distance of more than 150 feet, but olympians compete by shooting bullseyes at targets that are 230 feet away.

So everyone can rest easy. Just because some classes can transform into giant dragons (shapechange), stomp their foot to split the ground (Earthquake), shout ZA WARUDO to stop time itself (Time Stop), or bend reality at their whim (Wish), martial characters are well within the realm of possibility from levels 1 through 20. No weeaboo wuxia nonsense here.
 

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pemerton

Legend
I enjoyed the OP, and don't really have anything to add to it directly. But here's a tangential but still related comment (I think).

In my 4e game, which is not getting into upper-Epic territory (the PCs reached 27th in our session yesterday), I've found that combat resolution increasingly involves greater distances: both horizontal and vertical. Mobility for the PCs helps facilitate that, and also turn it into something that is fun rather than something that is a chore. Two PCs have encounter fly powers, one has at will flight (Sorcerer with Dominant Winds), the archer ranger has a flying carpet, and the fighter has an Athletics bonus of around +25, so he can reliably jump reasonable distances (especially with a +5 bonus from Mighty Sprint). (In the session just mentioned, he leaped off the party's flying tower onto the back of the white dragon that was engaged in an aerial assault.)

I think it is good for the game to have all the PCs enjoy decent mobility. For non magic-using characters that can easily be framed as preternatural strength, dexterity etc.
 


Pillsy

First Post
This is a somewhat incomplete analysis, because a lot of the things these characters can do can be done absolutely reliably (obviously even world-class athletes can't break world records every time), and under really suboptimal circumstances. I'm pretty sure the world record long jump wasn't set by someone wearing full plate, for instance. Still, I think the real-world numbers are good to have in mind when it comes to setting DCs when characters want to push the limits using Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics).

I also think it's fair to assume the best archers have indeed taken the Sharpshooter feat.

On the other hand, check the records on deadlifts. A Str of 20 won't even get you close. IIRC, the one-handed deadlift record is better than what a Str 20 character can lift witth both hands.
 

Raith5

Adventurer
Of course, it's not all about movement and lifting. Fighters are skilled! They can use weapons just flat out better than anyone else! Well, while fighters can throw a javelin 120 (if they accept disadvantage on the check) in the real world, javelins have been thrown as far as 375 feet. Without the sharpshooter feat, a fighter is going to have Disadvantage on archery shots at a distance of more than 150 feet, but olympians compete by shooting bullseyes at targets that are 230 feet away.

So everyone can rest easy. Just because some classes can transform into giant dragons (shapechange), stomp their foot to split the ground (Earthquake), shout ZA WARUDO to stop time itself (Time Stop), or bend reality at their whim (Wish), martial characters are well within the realm of possibility from levels 1 through 20. No weeaboo wuxia nonsense here.

Good points. I remember the kerfuffel a few years ago about 4e's come and get it - and recalling that good basket ballers force movement on their opponents all the time with cross overs and ball fakes etc.
 

pemerton

Legend
Good points. I remember the kerfuffel a few years ago about 4e's come and get it - and recalling that good basket ballers force movement on their opponents all the time with cross overs and ball fakes etc.
Yes. [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] has often made this point, too.
 

Good points. I remember the kerfuffel a few years ago about 4e's come and get it - and recalling that good basket ballers force movement on their opponents all the time with cross overs and ball fakes etc.

Yes. @Manbearcat has often made this point, too.

This was a great post (xped the OP the other day) but I didn't see fit to comment on it as we've all said it all before. This is one thing that has always made me facepalm. How many people on here haven't been exposed to (non-American) football? Martial forced movement galore!

Ball sports and combat sports are both riddled through with (1) the imposition of will on the opposition, (2) the imposition of catch 22s on the opposition such that there are no good options (and you're effectively being soft "mind controlled"), and (3) the imposition of speed and power that forces the opposition to hurry (thus the adage "be quick but don't hurry") and be prone to predictable (key) errors in judgement. What is all of this if not martial forced movement? I find it virtually impossible to believe that the majority of people on this board haven't played some kind of ball sport (at the very least).

Thus, when I see incredulity at the concept (of martial forced movement/mind control) I can't but facepalm.
 

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