Martial Controller is coming in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms

[tbarrie]

Apologies if this is old news, but I was flipping through Heroes of the Fallen Lands and just noticed that they list the class/build/role combos that are coming in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom, and one of the two new Ranger builds is a controller. About time!

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

Apologies if this is old news, but I was flipping through Heroes of the Fallen Lands and just noticed that they list the class/build/role combos that are coming in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom, and one of the two new Ranger builds is a controller. About time!

it was already known but it could be a thread of speculation on the new martial controller

 

[Mengu]

I guess we'll see if the half damage on a miss on encounter powers is a controller schtick, or just a wizard thing. I suspect the latter. I'm not sure if this ranger build will be melee or range, but I think ranged archer controller would be too close to Seeker, so I see melee as more likely. They may even go for a redo of the beast ranger (since it rings the 2e/3e bell), which I can certainly see as more of a controller (just having the extra warm body is control enough sometimes). Who knows, maybe they'll learn from mistakes and even do it right this time.

 

[Lord Ernie]

I guess we'll see if the half damage on a miss on encounter powers is a controller schtick, or just a wizard thing. I suspect the latter. I'm not sure if this ranger build will be melee or range, but I think ranged archer controller would be too close to Seeker, so I see melee as more likely. They may even go for a redo of the beast ranger (since it rings the 2e/3e bell), which I can certainly see as more of a controller (just having the extra warm body is control enough sometimes). Who knows, maybe they'll learn from mistakes and even do it right this time.

I don't know. People have been clamoring for a 'controller feature', much like each other role has one - defenders mark (well, all except for the knight), leaders have minor action heals, and strikers have extra damage mechanics.

Maybe controllers get something akin to 'inevitability': letting most their powers still do something on a miss. Wizards (or rather, Mages) have this ingrained in their encounter powers, but I could see them create class features for other Controller classes.

The only problem with such an update is the wizard's other, non-updated powers, which have no such bonuses yet, and the existing controllers: invokers, druids, psions, and seekers, since they don't have this feature yet.

My elf invoker, in any case, is getting jealous of the elf wizard in our party, who got a stat upgrade (+2 Int instead of +2 Wis) and miss effects on his powers.

 

[Zaran]

I guess we'll see if the half damage on a miss on encounter powers is a controller schtick, or just a wizard thing. I suspect the latter. I'm not sure if this ranger build will be melee or range, but I think ranged archer controller would be too close to Seeker, so I see melee as more likely. They may even go for a redo of the beast ranger (since it rings the 2e/3e bell), which I can certainly see as more of a controller (just having the extra warm body is control enough sometimes). Who knows, maybe they'll learn from mistakes and even do it right this time.

I'm betting it will be ranged because the seeker isn't going to be in essentials in the immediate future.

 

[Mengu]

The only problem with such an update is the wizard's other, non-updated powers, which have no such bonuses yet, and the existing controllers: invokers, druids, psions, and seekers, since they don't have this feature yet.

Yes, this is pretty much why I think the inevitability feature will be isolated to wizards. I wouldn't mind being wrong...

I'm betting it will be ranged because the seeker isn't going to be in essentials in the immediate future.

But seeker is in the game, and they have to think of the game as a whole. There was enough design space to make a fighter striker with the Slayer that didn't really overlap the Barbarian or Avenger. If they can make another ranged archer controller without overlapping the Seeker, I suppose its possible (and it would probably be better than Seeker, that shouldn't be too hard).

However, since summoning is typically a controller power, I think the beast companion could easily be turned into a strong controller feature.

 

[tbarrie]

Maybe controllers get something akin to 'inevitability': letting most their powers still do something on a miss. Wizards (or rather, Mages) have this ingrained in their encounter powers, but I could see them create class features for other Controller classes.

It's not just Mages, as any Wizard can choose the new encounter powers. (And Mages can choose older ones, for that matter.)

But I don't think this is intended as a Controller thing, just part of a general recognition that feeling like you've completely wasted a limited-use power sucks. Note that almost all of the new Cleric encounter powers have an "Effect:" clause as well, and the Essential Fighter's version of encounter powers (Power Strike) is declared after you hit and hence can't be wasted either. The Thief's Backstab can be wasted, but with a +3 to hit on top of needing combat advantage it won't miss very often.

I'm betting it will be ranged because the seeker isn't going to be in essentials in the immediate future.

Also, it's called a "hunter", a name which to my mind doesn't suggest melee weapons. I'd expect archery tricks plus some abilities themed around snares and traps.

 

[Saeviomagy]

But seeker is in the game, and they have to think of the game as a whole. There was enough design space to make a fighter striker with the Slayer that didn't really overlap the Barbarian or Avenger. If they can make another ranged archer controller without overlapping the Seeker, I suppose its possible (and it would probably be better than Seeker, that shouldn't be too hard).

I can't imagine an essentiallized no-daily barbarian being all that much different to the slayer, and I see no issues with having an archer class controller: hell, the current ranger has a fair few powers that fit the role really well already, it's just that everyone ignores them for raw damage.

I always felt the seeker should have been a martial class in the first place.

 

[Tony Vargas]

'Hunter' sounds like a ranged type, to me. I don't think that the existance of the archer-ranger and seeker in any way deters Essentials from going that route - the Knight and Slayer are enough like the Defender and Greatweapon builds that avoiding overlap is clearly not a priority (or even a consideration, at all).

I think it's ironic that the Hunter will almost certainly have to lose his Hunter's Quary, though.

As far as the longed-for definitive controller feature, I doubt we'll see anything in Essentials. If they had one, it'd've shown up on the Mage. The upgrading of Wizard encounters to have miss and effect lines has less to do with being controllery and more to do with having the "I don't roll to hit, that's for the meat-sheilds" feel of the classic magic-user.

 

[tbarrie]

I can't imagine an essentiallized no-daily barbarian being all that much different to the slayer, and I see no issues with having an archer class controller: hell, the current ranger has a fair few powers that fit the role really well already, it's just that everyone ignores them for raw damage.

Why would you expect an Essentials version of the Barbarian not to have dailies? Barbarians are explicitly supernatural in fourth edition. I'd be pretty surprised to see an Essential Barbarian that didn't have daily rages.