Martial Dailies - How so?

[GnomeWorks]

That's why the "in-the-zone" explaination is added. Your Ranger can fire two, three or four arrows at once all the time. But only once per day he gets the chance to gain a special benefit from it, that is different from any "normal" use of an arrow.

Yep. I think that, between the two, they provide a pretty solid in-game explanation for the martial dailies we've seen so far.

That part is rational. It's the following "but I can't get back into that state until tomorrow" that strains credulity.

It's the "you need to take a breather" concept that makes encounter powers work, just on a larger scale. You're doing something a lot more awesome, so the breather is longer.

 

[Tenbones]

The whole "In the zone" rationale would be fine, if the game reflected a series of events that leads the character to "get" into the aforementioned "zone" - but the idea that mechanically we're seperating the character from the gameplay - it seems silly. Or at the very least non-immersive.

This is the CCG portion of the game that people are (over)reacting to negatively. Some players want their character sheet/mechanics to reflect what their character can do, period. No one likes relying on random chance (as someone put it earlier 'you still have to roll to hit' after using your limited per-day ability) to win the day. They envision their fighter slaughtering their way across the field of battle only to find out he's suddenly run out of (fill in your power here) because he's already used it up - but the GM tells the player - sorry, the situation is not set for you to use (that power) again. Or you're not in the zone.

It's a feeling that the choice itself of how that character would proceed is removed from play (which apparently mechanically it is) for no reason of the player or the character's fault.

Which of course gets back down to what everyone is sniping each other for: the abstraction of the game does/does not match the expectations of some of the players.

Personally I think it could be done better. This mechanic seems too arbitrary and clunky to me. But I'll still give it a shot. Who knows!

And yes, I imagine a lot of people will be unhappy no matter what.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

The way I see it at this time, the daily martial power itself isn't causing a bit of confusion, it's the currently revealed daily martial powers such as Split the Tree and Crimson Edge. They just don't "click" for me.

I can understand something like the Brute Strike in that I could rationalize it by saying after pulling off a Brute Strike, my character pulled a muscle that doesn't cause a problem severe enough to impede "normal" actions but it will take a solid period of rest to recover enough to be able to try another Brute Strike. It's not realistic by any means because pulling a muscle can be severely impeding in real life but the explanation works for me for this particular daily.

The Rogue and Ranger dailies just seem to not make sense to me with respect to being a "physical" power that is limited to being daily. I like the concept of going into the "zone" and finding the right opportunity for a perfect shot. I just think I'd have less problems with martial dailies that could be explained by causing a physical strain to limit their use like a flurry of maneuvers that would normally be suicidal to do often but rewards you by being a devastating attack if it connects.

To clarify, I don't have any problems with martial dailies and it's not a detail that is going to take away from my gaming experience, it's just something that seems odd to me at this time. When the final product is released, I'm sure things will make more sense to me.

 

[Mallus]

It's the "you need to take a breather" concept that makes encounter powers work, just on a larger scale. You're doing something a lot more awesome, so the breather is longer.

You show great skill in transforming game nonsense into something that look reasonable, Grasshopper. You no longer need sensei...

 

[Kzach]

In reference to dailies being the result of luck and skill since they're so difficult to pull off, something that may support that is the way powers scale.

I remember hearing or reading somewhere that many powers can be upgraded as one levels so that dailies can eventually become encounter powers and maybe even at-will.

If this turns out to be true then that would go a long way toward justifying why dailies are daily. You eventually get better at them but until you do, you suck at pulling off a major stunt

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The whole "In the zone" rationale would be fine, if the game reflected a series of events that leads the character to "get" into the aforementioned "zone" - but the idea that mechanically we're seperating the character from the gameplay - it seems silly. Or at the very least non-immersive.

Despite my initial belief that Iron Heroes is "obsolte" with 4E, there might still be room for it.
The idea of using Tokens to "fuel" powers, instead of just declaring them "per encounter" or "daily" might work.

Simply system might be:
Daily powers cost - 10 Tokens
Encounter Powers - 3 Tokens

Attack Action - Gain 3 Token
Basic Attack - Gain 2 Token (yes, a non-powered attack gets you token)
Minor Action - Gain 1 Token
You can use only one option per round to gain token.
After 1 minute of rest, all tokens are lost. (Insert clever rule that ensure that no one tries to charge up himself all the time by hitting his comrades and similar stupid stuff)

Off course, using this system, daily powers are definitely no longer daily at all, but you really need to be conservative with your tokens.
It will provide a different play experience from 4E, but you might be able to keep the powers.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In reference to dailies being the result of luck and skill since they're so difficult to pull off, something that may support that is the way powers scale.

I remember hearing or reading somewhere that many powers can be upgraded as one levels so that dailies can eventually become encounter powers and maybe even at-will.

If this turns out to be true then that would go a long way toward justifying why dailies are daily. You eventually get better at them but until you do, you suck at pulling off a major stunt

We don't know this yet, and I can see the possibility for this not happening.
The Paladins Paragon and Epic Smites didn't deal more damage then the 1st level ones, they just added stronger special effects. How would Binding Smite compare to a ability that deals triple weapon damage?

 

[Fifth Element]

The narragamulationist in me loves this thread.

 

[HeinorNY]

Despite my initial belief that Iron Heroes is "obsolte" with 4E, there might still be room for it.
The idea of using Tokens to "fuel" powers, instead of just declaring them "per encounter" or "daily" might work.

Simply system might be:
Daily powers cost - 10 Tokens
Encounter Powers - 3 Tokens

Attack Action - Gain 3 Token
Basic Attack - Gain 2 Token (yes, a non-powered attack gets you token)
Minor Action - Gain 1 Token
You can use only one option per round to gain token.
After 1 minute of rest, all tokens are lost. (Insert clever rule that ensure that no one tries to charge up himself all the time by hitting his comrades and similar stupid stuff)

Off course, using this system, daily powers are definitely no longer daily at all, but you really need to be conservative with your tokens.
It will provide a different play experience from 4E, but you might be able to keep the powers.

Or you could just allow the players to recharge their Dailies by spending an amount of Action Points, 3 or 4 of them per Daily Power.

 

[Zelgadas]

Somewhat of a tangent (bear with me):

I play Team Fortress 2 pretty regularly. My class of choice is the Heavy Weapons Guy, because I like to blow the crap out of stuff with a big gun. I'm pretty good at it. Not great, but good. I average about one to two kills or assists, if not a few more, per life. However, every once in a while I hit my stride, my team is playing well, the enemy team is maybe dropping the ball a little bit, and things just line up, and I take down maybe five, six enemies in a matter of seconds. Sometimes I do even better. It doesn't happen often, and I can't replicate it whenever I want to, but it does happen from time to time. And when it happens, it's not just luck; some of it--possibly a large part of it--is simply me being on top of my game, reacting to stimuli in the most efficient way. It's partially instinctual and partially conscious, and part of it is just pure momentum.

I hope that helps your rationalization. I'm just sayin'.