Martial power - what's with the unbreakable marks?

[Plane Sailing]

How so? If the mark is unbreakable, no one else will be able to mark the target after the initial mega-mark hits.

You're right of course. Serves me right for posting when tired!

Cheers

 

[WalterKovacs]

If the fighter desperatedly wants to be the one who marks the BBEG, can't he just tell his Paladin chum to stay the frak out? (In other words, why use up a valuable power to do something simple communication can do better?)

Slightly confused,
Zapp

Actually, it may not be a "good thing", but actually a drawback/cost. You get to have the mark for the rest of the encounter, but you lose the option of having anyone take the pressure off by superceding the mark ... you mark the creature so much it won't recognize any "new" marks until you are unconcious.

 

[Deverash]

In game terms, I understand the benefit of perma-marking a foe, so you can attend to other markers, and get the benefits even if that enemy flies away.

(I don't understand how to explain this in the game world - how can a Fighter have any bearing on what the Dragon does to your Wizard buddy if he can't reach the Dragon? - but I have also realized you're not supposed to care for verisimilitude if you want to play 4E)

They basically piss the creature off so much they don't forget about it in a few seconds. The 15th level one, basically, is the Zorro move of carving your initials in his chest...you ain't forgetting that anytime soon.

 

[Conjurer]

Not so unbreakable, I think...

Isn't there a Rogue Utility that takes away a mark?

Something along the lines of "If you're marked, you end that condition" ?

Edit: Yeah, Marked Escape, a Rogue Utility 2 power.

 

[Ravingdork]

A lot of roleplayers get the marking system confused. Over and over again I have seen (or heard about) players who forgot to mark their targets, didn't know the amrks only lasted one round, or didn't know that a target could be marked even on a miss.

I imagine this is the game designers' way of simplifying things without errata: a kind of new fire and forget marking system that most anyone can understand.

 

[CapnZapp]

I agree it is nice and simple, but I don't understand the "simplifying bits without errata" comment.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I expect at least 80% of parties have only one defender.

From that perspective, preventing other defenders from marking the target is irrelevant and the mega-mark on the BBEG is pure win agains skirmisher type of monsters who are difficult to tie down.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Not so unbreakable, I think...

Isn't there a Rogue Utility that takes away a mark?

Something along the lines of "If you're marked, you end that condition" ?

Edit: Yeah, Marked Escape, a Rogue Utility 2 power.

True, but unless it's an NPC with the Rogue template, it would have to be a monster power that does something similar.

A lot of monsters would simply use various tricks to get away from a fighter and just let the mark expire. This prevents that. It also allows a fighter to concentrate their attacks of different enemies while keeping that particular monster marked.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

A lot of roleplayers get the marking system confused. Over and over again I have seen (or heard about) players who forgot to mark their targets, didn't know the amrks only lasted one round, or didn't know that a target could be marked even on a miss.

I imagine this is the game designers' way of simplifying things without errata: a kind of new fire and forget marking system that most anyone can understand.

This is a Daily power though. If it were an Encounter, I could see what you mean, but then it would be too powerful. As a Daily though, you can only use it very rarely, and on one enemy. So no, I don't think it was created as some way of "simplifying things without errata".

If you're a player or a DM in a group with a Fighter that has trouble with marking, then you should remind him. It was a bit confusing for me at first too, but a few times our DM would just give a nudge by saying "Do you want to mark the target?" or something to that effect. Once I got into the habit of marking on a hit or miss then it becomes second nature and you can start to think more about tactical marking and locking down specific targets and such.

I expect at least 80% of parties have only one defender.

From that perspective, preventing other defenders from marking the target is irrelevant and the mega-mark on the BBEG is pure win agains skirmisher type of monsters who are difficult to tie down.

Yeah, but our party has two. We have a Fighter (me) and a Paladin. Sometimes we have to really work out our marking scheme, since he has a tendency to DC my targets when he shouldn't. For example, when we were trying to prevent someone from getting away. My mark allows me to attack when they shift, and it does a lot more damage than his Divine Challenge, so it made more sense for my mark to be on the target at that point. So he just had to forgo using DC while we were chasing him down.

On the other hand, sometimes we use our marks to manipulate the enemy. If the Paladin is taking a lot of heat, I'll come in and mark the target so that he has to either attack me or take a CCII if he wants to keep going after the Paladin, and vice versa. The perma-marks eliminate the ability for our Paladin to take the heat off me if whoever I perma-marked is really pounding on me.

 

[-Avalon-]

Of course, certain tricky and bully-ish monsters may be inclined to try a tactic against marks...

I could see a soldier type who marks smacking the guy the fighter marked and saying "BACK UP YE WIMP! Let me have a go at him!!"

smacks the friend (marking him) so he can move away from the fighter and let the soldier move in to have some fun hehe

But I feel this may be too much bag-o-rats for me...