Massive Damage

[Scribble]

So I was wondering what might happen if I decided massive damage = some multiple of your CON score...

I thought maybe CON x3...

So instead of always being 50, A person with an 18 CON would have to make the check from 54 points, but a person with say a 10 would make it at 30...


Anyone try anything similar?

 

[Quartz]

If you want it as a multiplier of CON, have it as CON x 5 - based on the average person (CON = 10), not the exceptional.

But I think that 50 pts for massive damage is a bit on the low side anyway, especially at upper levels. Consider that a 15th level barbarian or knight with an adjusted 22 CON could have (15x18) 270 HP - 50 HP is a mere nettle-sting.

 

[Scribble]

If you want it as a multiplier of CON, have it as CON x 5 - based on the average person (CON = 10), not the exceptional.

But I think that 50 pts for massive damage is a bit on the low side anyway, especially at upper levels. Consider that a 15th level barbarian or knight with an adjusted 22 CON could have (15x18) 270 HP - 50 HP is a mere nettle-sting.

Hrmm... I've personally always thought 50 was a bit high. Maybe not, but it just always seemed like that much damage from a single attack rarely happens? Even a fireball is only average 35 damage... I figured the "average" stature person should save from massive vrs a fireball...

 

[Three_Haligonians]

If you want it as a multiplier of CON, have it as CON x 5 - based on the average person (CON = 10), not the exceptional.

But I think that 50 points for massive damage is a bit on the low side anyway, especially at upper levels. Consider that a 15th level barbarian or knight with an adjusted 22 CON could have (15x18) 270 HP - 50 HP is a mere nettle-sting.

The problem here is that 22 x 5 = 110. That means our 15th level barbarian (or knight, or other tough-guy) only has to worry about the massive damage save when they take 110 points of damage from a single source. Now, I am not the mathematician type so I couldn't tell you how hard or easy that is to accomplish at 15th level, but I don't think it would come up that often.

Which is not to say nothing should be done. I totally agree that the massive damage rules need some fixing - it should be based on how tough any particular creature is and what is more, I think we should do something about the flat DC 15 Fort save to avoid because eventually it just turns into that 1 in 20 chance of failure on a natural 1.

Count me in on this conversation

J from Three Haligonians

 

[ender_wiggin]

Perhaps this:

Taking 50 hp damage in one hit requires a fort save of DC 15 to survive.

Above 50 hp, the DC becomes 15 + 1/10 hp damage.

So a hit dealing 110 damage would require a fortitude save of DC 21. The ratio can be tweaked to your liking.

A 15th barbarian would probably have a fort save of about +15 to +20. Keep in mind that 110 is ALOT of damage to take from a single source -- the bbn could who focuses a bit more on his fort save would shrug it off easy, a bbn who doesn't who have a 1/4 chance of dying.

Makes harm spells a bit more scary though.

 

[ChimericDream]

Perhaps this:

Taking 50 hp damage in one hit requires a fort save of DC 15 to survive.

Above 50 hp, the DC becomes 15 + 1/10 hp damage.

So a hit dealing 110 damage would require a fortitude save of DC 21. The ratio can be tweaked to your liking.

A 15th barbarian would probably have a fort save of about +15 to +20. Keep in mind that 110 is ALOT of damage to take from a single source -- the bbn could who focuses a bit more on his fort save would shrug it off easy, a bbn who doesn't who have a 1/4 chance of dying.

Makes harm spells a bit more scary though.

I like this idea. It scales well with the concept of massive damage, and gives characters with more experience in combat an edge over the less physical types.

 

[Quartz]

Makes harm spells a bit more scary though.

I'd not considered it before, but since Harm is more of a magical drain rather than damage per se, I wouldn't invoke Massive Damage.

 

[ender_wiggin]

I've also thought about taking out massive damage altogether.

It adds a small amount of realism but adds so many problems. Once you get past the realism hump, most save or die mechanisms can be removed. It's no fun to have your 15th level character's life balance on the result of a die roll.

 

[The Levitator]

We don't use the massive damage rule either, as the group decided that some battles are outright mismatches and wouldn't necesarily celebrate defeating some hugely difficult creature on a couple of extremely lucky rolls. That said, I should mention that for a bunch of good guys, they are a bloodthirsty bunch that really enjoy earning their kills.

We do use the Clobbered Variant. I like the fact that it is a percentage of damage, not a flat number. One thing that always bothered our group was that 50 HP doesn't mean much to some creatures, yet would kill others 5 times over. Using a percentace seems to level the playing field. The other thing I like about the Clobbered Variant is that it is based on current HP, which means the battle gets potentially more dangerous the more someone gets injured. This feels very realistic to me, as fights tend to go that way in real life. Injuries sap strength, confidence and patience, making a fighter more susceptable to making the 1 big mistake that costs them. I think our group really likes the combat a little grittier, so they prefer massive (used relatively, because a 5 HP slash to a first level fighter is a "massive" injury) damage to have combat effects that give them an advantage without the instant kill option.

If you like having the massive damage rule, I definitely believe that having some kind of sliding scale that is relative and not a flat number would be more fair. Maybe you could base if off of the Clobbered Variant and use a percentage of the creatures total HP, instead of a flat number.

 

[quetzyl]

I use (Con+lvl)*2 for massive damage saves, and additionally have attacks which do more than Con+Lvl but less than massive damage deal a d4 ability damage to a random ability score. I find Con+Lvl works quite well.

Cheers,
quetzyl