MasterWork Mithral armor? or JUST Mithral armor? Mithral Questions in general

[RedSwan78]

Ok, I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it. Basically, when making Mithral Armor, can you have *just* Mithral armor, or can you make Masterwork Mithral Armor?

Here's why it's so confusing. In the DMG, page 242-243 it says:
Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter then normal for purposes of movement and other limitations (for example, whether a barbarian can use her fast movement ability while wearing the armor or not).

Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3. Nonarmor or nonshiled items made from mithral weigh half as much as the same item made from other metals. Note that items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected. (A longsword is affected, while a spear is not.)

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor.

Mithral has a hardness of 15 and 30 hit points per inch of thickness.

Light Armor---------- +1,000 gp
Medium Armor------- +4,000 gp
Heavy Armor--------- +9,000 gp
Shield----------------- +1,000 gp
Other Items--------- +500 gp/lb.


Soooo, here's the questions.. the description says that armors fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times ... that's the whole confussion part. So that means, that Mithral items are NOT actually Masterwork items, just that the time to create them is treated as if you where creating a masterwork item

What IS the time of creating a masterwork item?

So, now, I want to have a Mithral Chain Shirt. That's +1,000gp for it to be made from Mithral. Now.. I want to get this Mithral Chain Shirt to be made magical. Problem is, by what's stated above, it's NOT magical. So it can't be enchanted then, can it? So, DO I have to, or CAN I, pay the extra 150gp to make it MasterWork, therefore allowing me to magically enchant it, and lowering the Armor Check Penalty by an additional 1..?

Also, it says that "Heavy Armors are treated as Medium".. AND it gives a specific example about the Barb using fast movement or not. The Barbarian can use Fast Movement when wearing no armor, light armor, and Medium armor. So, a Barbarian can use his/her fast movement when wearing Mithral Heavy armor, because it is *treated* as Medium armor. Here's the real question.. since it says that Heavy armor is treated as Medium armor.. would the Barbarian have to expend a feat to get Heavy armor? It SAYS it is treated as Medium Armor, so I would say no, but I was wondering if there where any official rules on that?

So that's my long-winded questions.. The barb thing was just thrown in there as a side thought, my main concerns are about MW Mithral or not.

Discuss (and if you can, provide any links/sources of official answers )

 

[Wolf72]

ooh what's this?

*wolf twitches*

um

*more twitching*

I can pretty much say ...

*twitch*

I don't want to see this topic revisited ... like most people I went with what made sense to me and what I liked because I didn't see a definitive answer.

*snap*

I'm praying to the PTB that they clarify this in the revised edition

 

[trentonjoe]

I am with wolf on this one. I am typed to many responses on this topic.


Look here doe a fairly recent version and check the link in the link for the REALLY long one.

Good luck!

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22813&highlight=masterwork+mithral

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I like it simple :

I consider Mithral Armor/Weapon Masterwork and in fact it replaces the Masterwork quality.

A Mithral Weapon/Armor can be enchanted. A Mithral armor/weapon can't also be Masterwork. Same goes for any other special material.

Since a Mithral Full Plate Armor is considered a medium armor, anyone with the medium armor proficiency can use it as such.

And that's it. Never caused me any problem.

 

[Wolf72]

hey there NJ-Joe!

simple, yuppers ... get together with your group find one way you like and just stick with it (K.I.S.S. =keep it simple stoopid)

*wolf hopes again for WotC to clarify this in Revised Ed.*

 

[Zhure]

Actually, I thought it was pretty clear. Mithral does not equal masterwork.

 

[Zhure]

"Celestial Armor

This bright silver or gold +1 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without revealing its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of -2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor, and it allows the wearer to fly on command (as the spell) once per day.

Caster Level: 5th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be good; Market Price: 25,300 gp; Cost to Create: 12,800 gp + 1,000 XP."

Backwards math: 1,000 xp = spell parts = 25,000 gp market price.
Cost to create = 12,500 gp, leaving a value of 300 gp unaccounted for. Chainmail costs = 150 gp + 150 gp in masterwork.

... OMG, Celestial armor isn't mithral! OMG!

My Sorcerer can get Mithral celestial armor made for only 1,000 GP more! AC check = -0; Spell Failure = 5%! ZOINK!

Greg

 

[Korin Tempest]

on the celestial armor... even if it isn't mithril to begin with.. if you throw in the mithril, the masterwork and mithril armor check mods don't stack, they overlap... you're looking a -1 armor check penalty.. just figured I'd clarify...

my two cents

 

[RedSwan78]

So I looked through those threads, and they made reference to a question in the FAQ that said that the bonuses from Mithral and MW DO stack.. but It says it was on page 71.. the current FAQ only goes up to 62 pages.. sooo.. what's up with that?

Also, what someone said about how DarkWood items are CONSIDERED MW items, but Mithral and Adamantite says they are *treated as mw with regards to creation times* leads me to believe that you CAN make MW Mithral items, and that you *do* need to make MW Mithral items to enchant them...

::shrugs::

Sure would be great to get an official ruling on this

 

[SevenSir]

With the exception of the odd occasions when you strand your PCs on a desert island with nothing to do but use their craft feats on a convenient store of extremely rare metals, nobody with a wisdom above 6 and an understanding of rarity would bother to make a non-masterwork mithril item.

For this reason, I consider all mithril items bought in a normal market to be masterwork. Mithril items constructed by fools or bored Robinson Crusoe types would have all the ordinary bonuses for being mithril, minus whatever component of the bonus would have been provided by the Masterwork-edness.

Would any PC present a smith with a heap of mithril to be made into a suit of armor, and then mention to the smith"by the way, I want it to be masterwork." ?

Only in rare and unusual situations is mithril wasted on nom MW items. Don't waste time adding the masterwork bonus to every Mithril item.