D&D General Matt Colville on adventure length

[Scott Christian]

I agree with Matt. I would add that the module created a template for us on how to world build, or at the least, gave us a preference on how we like world building to be setup. The module, in its purest form, gave us ways to build NPCs, encounters, and plot hooks.
I would also note that for us, at least when we were young, the module was a single session experience. Now, we almost always played for 12-15 hours straight. But we rarely stopped until we were "done" with the module.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What makes you think they didn’t scribble it in the back of an envelope and naughty word you during the playtest? Don’t explain, make it look complicated, and people will be fooled into thinking you have done something really clever.

Because (a) it's not the kind of thing one would do if it was pure back-of-the-envelope stuff (as noted, there's a very weird out-of-place dip right in the middle), unless one is a crazy person, which seems an uncharitable thing to presume; and (b) I generally try to presume that if they spell out some reasoning, and that reasoning actually does make a degree of sense, and the numbers do in fact back up that reasoning, then they actually did think through it.

Also (c) I still am desperately hoping that the designers at WotC will care, at all, about doing statistical analysis, and this was a rare, shining example of them actually doing some statistical analysis. Extremely basic, simple statistical analysis, but still.

 

[el-remmen]

Getting to second level after one session is too fast for me.

In my games, PCs advance every 4 to 6 sessions. The longest campaign I have run was 5 years (104 sessions) and the PCs ended up at 12th. This is the highest level D&D I have run or played that was not a one shot

My most recent completed campaign ended after 45 (5 hour) sessions with 8th level characters.

My two current games are at level 5 (45 3 hour sessions) and 3rd level (14 4 to 5 hour sessions).

 

[tetrasodium]

I can only tell you what I have seen. Despite doing deadly combats, we did not level up. The DM told us how much experience we earned, and it was not enough to actually cross that 300 XP benchmark. What more do you want? Annotated actual play podcasts?

I can only tell you what I actually, physically experienced--and that experience has (apart from Hussar's game) consistently been that getting a measly 300 XP took so long, several campaigns never even made it that far. I've never seen any campaign gain more than two levels (though that's simply because there hasn't been enough sessions in Hussar's game; there's every indication we'll get there.)

I cannot tell you why so many DMs have chosen not to give enough XP to level up at the intended rate. I cannot tell you why they deviated from the clear intent of the rules in a way that damaged the experience. I can only tell you that they did do so. I repeatedly exhorted several of these DMs to reconsider some of their tactics. The first few blithely dismissed any recommendation I gave. Then I started getting active hostility (as in "if you don't like it, you can leave, and if you keep pushing, I might ask you to leave anyway"), despite literally only asking one single time, which was my signal to stop even trying. "DM Empowerment" at its finest.

Cast all the aspersions you like. It won't change my lived experience.

You miss the point and are badly mistaken about what was being discussed. None of this distraction is at all relevant to the way 5e's advancement math was designed to speed through faster than past editions & accelerate the process.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Because (a) it's not the kind of thing one would do if it was pure back-of-the-envelope stuff (as noted, there's a very weird out-of-place dip right in the middle), unless one is a crazy person, which seems an uncharitable thing to presume

You seen the 1st edition XP tables!?

There is no deep maths behind anything, it’s random numbers and a magician’s smoke and mirrors.

“I a developer, I know the deap magic, trust me. Woo woo.”

 

[jasper]

I feel like half the people here will tell them that that is an oxymoron

Please not another race. Ox with bull rush, darkvision and what else?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Getting to second level after one session is too fast for me.

In my games, PCs advance every 4 to 6 sessions.

Quite. There is no “correct” rate of advancement, just whatever feels right to the group. If you are using xp and it feels to fast the DM halves the amount of xp awarded; if it is too slow, they double it.

 

[Parmandur]

Which means the campaign is essentially over in well under a year, assuming weekly play.

Yes, that is by design: the idea is that kids in school playing every week can complete a campaign in an academic year.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, that's one of the weird things about 5e. PCs are quite tough, which kind of makes a mockery of the encounter building guidelines leading DMs to often throw encounters at them that are supposed to be 4 times as strong as "deadly", and the PCs still handily win. But that's something that happens a while into the game. Level 1 and 2 characters die to a strong gust of wind.

That us less a problem of the Encounters, and more people not following a full Adventure Day. It's a game of attrition and resource management.

 

[Parmandur]

You seen the 1st edition XP tables!?

There is no deep maths behind anything, it’s random numbers and a magician’s smoke and mirrors.

“I a developer, I know the deap magic, trust me. Woo woo.”

Gygax was an insurance adjustor, so I'm not saying you are wrong here, but I think his professional background in funny math influenced him there. It's messy and complicated, but so ate actuary tables.