"...may use this instead of a basic melee attack"

[Zephyrus]

Martial Power introduced a lot more of these type powers and I'm wondering exactly what kind of interaction those powers that allow you to substitute a power in place of a basic melee when you charge especially interact with feats and other abilities that trip off a charge.

For example Rhino Strike can be used in place of the Basic Melee when a character charges.

.....1 ) Do feats (such as Powerful Charge) that key off a Charge still grant their benefit (such as bonus damage from Powerful Charge) when the character is able to use a power in place of the basic melee attack a charge normally grants?

.....2 ) Does the character still get the +1 bonus to hit from charging (or does the power being used in place of the basic melee over ride that aspect of a charge)?

I personally can see it interpreted both ways but I'm sure their should be some supporting RAW to determine the answers.

My Personal impression on the first question is that even though the attack power function of a charge is being swapped (a specific Class power in place of a Basic Melee) the Attack as a whole is still under the umbrella of a "Charge" and would get the bonus effects based on a charge (and subsequently end the players turn per a Charge as well unless the substituted Power or some other effect said otherwise).

On the Second question however I'm not so sure of. One part of me says that its a function of the basic melee attack that gets the +1 bonus to hit, another part says that the +1 bonus is a function a Charge and replacing the basic melee doesn't take that benefit away and it carries over to stack with whatever attack bonus the substituting power would have. I'm inclined to learn toward the former (bonus goes away when you substitute the power for the basic melee) but the latter seems probable as well.

I am interested in whatever insight anyone might be able to shine on this especially if they can support their view with RAW references (not that I want to shoot down peoples opinions, but a RAW supported view is what I am after, my problem is that I don't have a RAW supported view).

 

[Danceofmasks]

Hmm ... never thought about this much ... must be the Magic: the Gathering talking.
"Replacement effect, all other variables stay the same"

1)
You're still charging, so, feats, class features, etc. that key off a charge would still happen.

2)
I had thought it was a simple case of lifting MBA from the charge text and dropping in the other power's name.
But if read in a manner that does not alter the wording of charge, then you'd be doing a <blah power> and not an MBA, so the +1 doesn't apply.
However, the text of charge implies that all available options at the end of the charge get a +1 .. so I'm reasonably certain you get the +1 for everything.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Powerful charge: "When you charge, you gain a +2 bonus to damage and a +2 bonus to bull rush attempts." (PHB p199) It doesn't mention anything about basic melee, just "+2 damage", so in this case it would apply.

As far as the attack roll bonus: "...make a melee basic attack or a bull rush at the end of your move. \ +1 Bonus to the Attack Roll: You gain a +1 bonus to the attack roll of your basic attack or bull rush." (PHB p287) Now, because you're substituting the basic attack in the charge, the power would be your "basic attack" as it was the attack you did at the end of the charge and counts as the charge's melee basic attack, so you'd get the +1 bonus. Or at least, I'm 97% sure.

 

[Nail]

.....1 ) Do feats (such as Powerful Charge) that key off a Charge still grant their benefit (such as bonus damage from Powerful Charge) when the character is able to use a power in place of the basic melee attack a charge normally grants?

Yes.

If you charge, you get all of the benefits of charging, including the use of appropriate feats. Remember, this is "exception based" design, meaning benefits are removed only if they are explicitly stated as being removed.

.....2 ) Does the character still get the +1 bonus to hit from charging (or does the power being used in place of the basic melee over ride that aspect of a charge)?

Yes.

See explanation for #1.

 

[Nail]

2)
I had thought it was a simple case of lifting MBA from the charge text and dropping in the other power's name.
But if read in a manner that does not alter the wording of charge, then you'd be doing a <blah power> and not an MBA, so the +1 doesn't apply.
However, the text of charge implies that all available options at the end of the charge get a +1 .. so I'm reasonably certain you get the +1 for everything.

Rhino Strike says "You must charge and use this power in
place of a melee basic attack."

I think it's reasonable to interpret that to mean: "Everywhere a melee basic attack in mentioned in the charge action, replace with the use of this power."

That said, it is true you could be a stickler and read it as "since you did not use a melee basic attack while charging, you don't get the +1 to the attack."

 

[Zephyrus]

Thank you for the replies and it appears while its possible to interpet otherwise the rules appear to favor that Yes to both (get the benefit of feats that trip off charge etc.. and also gain an additional +1 bonus to whatever attack power is used in place of the basic melee).

Thank You.