McGuffin Help

[buddhafrog]

Cain would make a great antihero, especially as a villain in search of redemption. According to some readings, Cain was made immortal, cursed by God to wander the world in shame, with a mark laid on him that will "deliver god's vengeance sevenfold" if he is ever harmed. For your version of Cain this could have a similar game effect - strike Cain, and you get the same damage back multiplied.

You could possibly have your Slaying Stone start off as something your players need - perhaps, at the beginning of the arc, they get a hold of it, learn its powers, and then use it to slay a big bad. Cain appears throughout as this unstoppable, unreasonable character who is after their stone.

Then, after the big bad is dead, one of their patrons gets corrupted by the thought of using it to kill a god (and perhaps become one in its place), and tries to steal it from them. If he does, Cain then appears as a uncomfortable ally, whom they work with to get the stone back. Finally, they join Cain in a quest to destroy the Stone, and earn his redemption - and oblivion.

I'm impressed with how you were able to tie everything together in a very reasonable plot. Well done.

A concern I have that probably would prevent me from running with something like this is that I don't know how I as the DM (and still relatively inexperienced) could pull this off without making it complete railroad. I know that is the shame word for DM's on this forum. I DM for youth and am slightly less afraid of railroading, but still, I can't imagine doing this without complete railroad.

Anyone mind adding suggestions or even expanding on the previous idea on how to run a campaign like this?

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice (I love this board)!

 

[domino]

Why's the stone so important? What could it do?

I'm pretty sure that by definition of a Macguffin, it doesn't matter. What's in the briefcase from Pulp Fiction? Doesn't matter, only that people want it.

 

[buddhafrog]

I'm pretty sure that by definition of a Macguffin, it doesn't matter. What's in the briefcase from Pulp Fiction? Doesn't matter, only that people want it.

I've heard the reference to Pulp Fiction often - there is truth there. But I think if your campaign revolves around this Macguffin but no one knows what it does, the motivation will slip away. Furthermore, if you can explain why the Macguffin has it's ability and why it is important - and even if some of the original players are still involved in the story as some suggested above, then I think you have a tight campaign with PC motivation.

Pulp Fiction story is not about the Macguffin, but the players involved. If your campaign was to deliver a Macguffin or to retrieve a Macguffin - it's possible. You might as well just rescue the princess. It's possible, But a fully themed Macguffin campaign is a different story IMO.... and one I've always had a hard time figuring out how to pull off well.

 

[Will Doyle]

Pulp Fiction story is not about the Macguffin, but the players involved. If your campaign was to deliver a Macguffin or to retrieve a Macguffin - it's possible. You might as well just rescue the princess. It's possible, But a fully themed Macguffin campaign is a different story IMO.... and one I've always had a hard time figuring out how to pull off well.

It's possible that all Domino is suggesting here is that you stick to the true meaning of the term "McGuffin".

By definition, a McGuffin is a device that drives the plot and is then forgotten entirely. For example, the golden idol at the start of Raiders is the McGuffin - in that it serves to introduce Indy and his nemesis - but the Lost Ark itself isn't: it's a plot device.

Semantics, really. Everyone misuses the term so much that its meaning has pretty much changed over time.

 

[Ranes]

[MENTION=6682161]Will Doyle[/MENTION]
Sorry but I must question the forgotten entirely part of your definition. I have never encountered that before and I have studied screenwriting and worked as a screenwriter. My understanding is that a McGuffin can be anywhere on a scale from ever-present to forgotten entirely by the third act.

You may be mis-remembering Hitchcock's famous discussion of the term in which he says, "In many stories, by the time we should be demanding to know what the McGuffin actually is, we have forgotten about it entirely."

Perhaps you could show how the term has changed in meaning since it came into usage in the nineteen thirties. I don't see any evidence that this is the case.

Please don't take any of this the wrong way. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[d2OKC]

The most famous MacGuffin, or at least the most iconic, is the Maltese Falcon. The most important thing about it was that it wasn't even all that important, it was just the thing that got Sam Spade involved in the plot, and then a story happened. MacGuffins can be forgotten about, or they can simply be items that aren't all that valuable, except for their role in getting the ball rolling (in the Indiana Jones case, literally).

However, it sounds like the OP is looking for something a little more than a MacGuffin, in the traditional sense. He wants a quest item. It serves a similar purpose, except that once you find it, the story isn't over. There's still more to do.

I'm very interested, as well, to find out where the OP ends up going with this idea.

 

[Will Doyle]

Sorry but I must question the forgotten entirely part of your definition.

Hey, you're right. Looks like I'm misinformed, and McGuffins can sometimes stick around.

I guess where the term is most often misused, is when people make the McGuffin actually do something crucial to the plot. Then it becomes a plot device. This is where I think the term has mutated - for example, George Lucas calls R2D2 a McGuffin, but it isn't by Hitchcock's definition.

 

[aco175]

I would like to see a story have an item like this that does not have powers, but is worth much to one person or group anyways. The stone itself is just a stone, but my great-grandfather told me about touching it before the king gave it to the watch captain. It's a 'holy' rock because it has a pictire of Jesus on it if you look hard enough. Like the slice of pizza or piece of toast idea.

 

[Unwise]

It's late so I can't read over everything, but will chime in while I can with a few brief notes.

What about making the stone more specifically linked to Bael Turath?
- It would explain how a tiefling historian knew about it.
- Allows for competing tielflings, devils and dragonborn all having a very good reason to stop the PCs gathering the mcguffins.

As for the nature of the stone shard, I would probably make it a piece from the original High Throne of Bael Turath. The one the king sat in when he first made the deal with the devils that eventually turned the humans into tieflings and granted the empire immense power.

I can imagine that throne as being very very powerful for warlocks. It was likely smashed into peices by the Arkhosians during the war. If enough of it is recovered, whoever sits on the throne can call back into effect the pacts with Asmodeus. The wording of the contract could be "..and the legion will offer all assistance to the one that sits upon the throne of Bael Turath...".

Finally, I would suggest against having the bad guy competing for the items, that is over done. Instead, I would have the PCs working for the BBEG unknowingly. This guy keeps sending them on missions to recover these stones and he pays well.

Eventually, they start being attacked by evil tieflings and even devils. In PC thinking, this means they are doing something good, they seldom consider that one evil group might be trying to stop another evil group.

Then they start getting attacked by Dragonborn who don't seem all that evil. Then Paladins of Bahamut start hunting them down, if they have not twigged by now, they will. By then it is too late, the tiefling gets the last bit he needs, or makes do with an incomplete set. He rises to power and the PCs put him there, they must stop the evil they have unleashed upon the world.

Hmm I'm rather taken with this, I might flesh it out into a short campaign some time.

 

[buddhafrog]

Hmm I'm rather taken with this, I might flesh it out into a short campaign some time.

If you do put this to a short campaign - and if you jot it down - I'd love to see it.