D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

[OB1]

Yeah, I remember all the great advice from those fighting against marriage equality that it was "fine" to be gay as long as you don't "shove it in our face". Being so public about who we loved would just backfire, making the opposition dig in even harder and keep change from happening. Well, we kept speaking and showing our true colors loudly, proudly, publicly and honestly and flipped public perception in less than a decade. Turned out that silence wan't the best way to create change.

The people telling Mearls to be quiet, play nice and don't rock the boat? That he's being mean and making the problem worse? That change should happen by convincing one person at a time? They're saying it because they know what Mearls is doing will work. That's what they are afraid of. Keep it up Mearls!

And while Marvel may have lost some of it's base in order to target a larger audience, in the long run they will be better off for it. That's something that the movie industry needs to figure out quick as well. Glad to see WotC is already there. Hmmm, I wonder if that's why 5e is off the charts popular...

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Instead of Thor being made female, why not create a character based on the Valkyries? Or the Furies? Or Athena? Durga? Sekhmet? The Morrígan?

Damn, you're right... how has The Morrígan not been made into a Marvel character already? Hero or villain, works either way. I'd buy it on the name alone.

The Furies, Athena, Durga, and Morrigan are DC characters. Sekhmet and the Valkyries are pre-existing Marvel characters. So, basically, it's either "they can't" or "they tried and it wasn't as popular."

 

[LordEntrails]

Second, because WotC is the biggest name in the industry, you'd expect them to hire someone with LOTS of qualifications. Someone with a wealth of freelance credits and their name in a dozen books and multiple products for sale on the DMsGuild. ...

I wouldn't.

People are acting like this position is for the senior lead designer. I only skimmed the job opening when it was first posted, but why do people assume this job should be filled with the most experienced author/designer their is?

I don't remember the salary range being listed for this job, but maybe it's a minimum wage job... you know, the bottom rung on the totem pole?

Yea, sure, WotC is the biggest name in the business, but that doesn't mean they don't have peon level positions that need filling.

Do you think companies like Tesla, Intel, etc only hire the most senior level engineers? Of course not. They don't want to pay the salaries for such people, and they don't need or want all of their employees to be "alphas". They need people to do some of the "grunt" work. Some of the work that doesn't justify an overhead rate of $100+ per hour.

 

[Sadras]

Do you also go around firing people that do not work for you?

If so, how does that work out for you?

Well there was a Seinfeld episode, where the company had to let Kramer go, even though he wasn't even employed by the company. #Truestory.

 

[Warpiglet]

Yeah, I remember all the great advice from those fighting against marriage equality that it was "fine" to be gay as long as you don't "shove it in our face". Being so public about who we loved would just backfire, making the opposition dig in even harder and keep change from happening. Well, we kept speaking and showing our true colors loudly, proudly, publicly and honestly and flipped public perception in less than a decade. Turned out that silence wan't the best way to create change.

The people telling Mearls to be quiet, play nice and don't rock the boat? That he's being mean and making the problem worse? That change should happen by convincing one person at a time? They're saying it because they know what Mearls is doing will work. That's what they are afraid of. Keep it up Mearls!

And while Marvel may have lost some of it's base in order to target a larger audience, in the long run they will be better off for it. That's something that the movie industry needs to figure out quick as well. Glad to see WotC is already there. Hmmm, I wonder if that's why 5e is off the charts popular...

Right. If anyone thinks there might be a better way to say things they want efforts to include others to die on the vine! Ha! You know my mind better than I do. This is the mindreading nonesense I was referencing.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Yeah, I remember all the great advice from those fighting against marriage equality that it was "fine" to be gay as long as you don't "shove it in our face". Being so public about who we loved would just backfire, making the opposition dig in even harder and keep change from happening. Well, we kept speaking and showing our true colors loudly, proudly, publicly and honestly and flipped public perception in less than a decade. Turned out that silence wan't the best way to create change.

The people telling Mearls to be quiet, play nice and don't rock the boat? That he's being mean and making the problem worse? That change should happen by convincing one person at a time? They're saying it because they know what Mearls is doing will work. That's what they are afraid of. Keep it up Mearls!

And while Marvel may have lost some of it's base in order to target a larger audience, in the long run they will be better off for it. That's something that the movie industry needs to figure out quick as well. Glad to see WotC is already there. Hmmm, I wonder if that's why 5e is off the charts popular...

Marvel lost enough of its base that it started cancelling its efforts. That is not better off in the future. That is a setback, and one that will be much harder to overcome in the time to come.

What some of us are not happy with Mearls about is that he tried to fight back; it's how. He basically engaged the trolls on their terms, on their turf, and in the way that gives them the most advantage.

That's why I'm unhappy with him. He saw a trap so obvious it had a neon sign above it, and he strolled in while thinking he could tank it. But he can't, because he doesn't even understand what the trap is. Just like you don't.

And, let's be honest: Comparing this to the gay marriage campaign is like comparing apples to zebras. It's not even remotely the same fight or the same strategies involved. They don't have to get any laws passed, fight any court battles, or anything like that. All the trolls have to do is get Mearls to engage them and keep engaging them, then make enough noise to either get the majority of the fanbase or the media paying attention. After that, they just need to make certain the atmosphere gets toxic enough that sales tank. It doesn't matter if they're morally in the right, if they convince anyone, or even if they don't win a single argument or discussion; it's all about tanking sales and forcing Mearls to either capitulate or be removed. It's what they did to Ghostbusters and Marvel, after all.

That's why I giggled as I read multiple comments about which side is right, which side has the moral stance, etc. None of that matters. This isn't about morality. It's closer to a human-level predator-prey dynamic, and Mearls is the prey.

Best part is? They can say that a feminist-focused Ghostbusters doesn't work, and they have the sales figures to back them up. They can say SJW-focused comics don't work, and Marvel grudgingly agrees based on its own sales figures. And they'd be able to make a case against inclusive-focused hiring, and WotC would be grudgingly forced to agree. Do you see the long-term strategy at play?

 

[ad_hoc]

Hmmm, I wonder if that's why 5e is off the charts popular...

There is a thread in the forum asking whether 5e's "new gender policy" is attracting new players.

There are over 1100 replies. Apparently it was a contentious question.

Now here we are, 5e is the most popular RPG ever (AINEC) with over 10 million active players. 5e also had its best sales month in November 2017. It appears to only be gaining momentum.

Here's a great (terrible) snippet on the first page:

"I really don't get the big push for "inclusivity" and "diversity." ...I don't want openly gay or trans people, unless they're interested in role playing a very difficult life. ...it doesn't matter, so why make a big deal about it? "

Here's the thing about that. No one would say "I don't want to see any openly straight people." 'Openly straight' is just not a thing people say because it is seen as the default. It's a real problem in fiction. Authors tend to feel like they need a reason for making a character who is not a cis straight white man. Because that is the default. Diverging from the default requires a character or story reason. It's the character version of Chekhov's Gun.

Men are seen as the default. So when WotC hires a woman, there must be a special reason for it.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...is-it-attracting-new-players&highlight=gender

(please don't resurrect that thread...)

 

[Imaro]

Do a search for Marvel SJW. They pretty much admitted that focusing on inclusiveness and diversity hurt their profits and have decided to start cancelling that approach. So, basically, they admitted defeat.

Hmmm... I think this "fact" is pretty debatable... one person in the company blamed diversity for declining sales of books (again let's ignore the fact that Jane Foster as Thor was their second best selling book & Miles Morales is featuring in their first animated movie to go to theaters as well as being included in the new spiderman game coming out on PS4)... however since that claim there's been plenty of evidence shown that contradicts that line of thinking... some of it referenced in this very thread.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Hmmm... I think this "fact" is pretty debatable... one person in the company blamed diversity for declining sales of books (again let's ignore the fact that Jane Foster as Thor was their second best selling book & Miles Morales is featuring in their first animated movie to go to theaters as well as being included in the new spiderman game coming out on PS4)... however since that claim there's been plenty of evidence shown that contradicts that line of thinking... some of it referenced in this very thread.

The person in question is the vice president of sales. Even if his statement is inaccurate (given his position, that's doubtful), his statement still is the stance of the company unless it contradicts him elsewhere.

Also, yeah, the cancellations happened. CB Cebulski has cancelled titles like Guardians of the Galaxy, Iceman, Luke Cage, She Hulk, and The Unbelievable Gwenpool.

 

[hawkeyefan]

In regard to the Marvel sidetrack....

Marvel put out a few books with legacy characters taking on the mantle of an older hero. A few of these books...most notably Ms. Marvel and The Mighty Thor and also Ultimate Spider-Man (although that one started as part of a separate line) were very successful. These characters were bringing in new readers and reaching new demographics.

So Marvel doubled down on the approach and tried the same approach on many more books. Essentially, almost all their major characters had aome kind of “classic” version and then a “modern” version. And like any initiative that is widely adopted, the results varied greatly. Some of these books were quick failures, others were moderately successful. So many of them were canceled. Combine that with a company wide story where Captain America was turned into a Nazi, combined with the current political climatw in the US, and there was a lot of negative feedback. Marvel also was using some questionable ordering practices for retailers, which did not help at all.

So their new initiative is more of a return to the classic approach. They’ve scaled back on the failed books and are putting out some others which seem to be more traditional takes on their properties. However, the most successful of the “diverse” characters are still around.

I honestly don’t think this particular company wide initiative was much more successful or unsuccessful compared to their other recent ones. But combined with the Captain America as a Nazi crossover and a recent surge by their biggest competitor, it probably seems worse.