Mearls on Controller design and At-Will balance

[keterys]

While I think it should be a flat amount to avoid certain absurd builds, -1 seems weak when a feat can give -2. A class ability should at least equal to a feat, in fact it should be feat+. I really don't know what the orb wizard should get, if it stacks with the feat it can quickly get nasty. Heck maybe they get the feat for free even if they don't have the Chr for it and its provides -3 instead of -2.

It's probably worth noting that a feat that gave -1 to all saves would be a great feat. Spell Focus is... almost a reward for having a high enough Charisma. Or possibly comes with an iron shackle forcing the wizard to have a high enough Charisma, depending how you think about it.

 

[Mistwell]

Don't you think it treads on the toes of an epic feat?

Spell Accuracy [Wizard]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: You can omit a number of squares from the area of effect of any of your area or close wizard powers. This number can’t exceed your Wisdom modifier.

Love that feat idea.

I'd also like to see a pull or slide at-will power for Wizards.

 

[TwoSix]

Wow. Arcane Power's being released on my youngest son's birthday, and Divine Power's being released on my birthday. What are the odds?

Cheers,
Cam

Well, since your son's birthday is exactly 9 months after yours...I'd say the odds were slightly stacked in your favor...you got lucky, as it were.

 

[timbannock]

Well, since your son's birthday is exactly 9 months after yours...I'd say the odds were slightly stacked in your favor...you got lucky, as it were.

Yeah, Happy Birthday indeed

 

[Mournblade94]

I ran a few months of 4th edition with friends of mine whom I have not gamed with since first edition D&D. They were VERY enthusiastic about 4th. SO I agreed to run 4th edition.

We did not make it through Keep on the Shadowfell, because it was a GRIND, and a very bad start for 4e which I was enthusiastic about but skeptical.

So I ran soe scenarios. My enthusiastic Players soon got bored with 4e. They never played 3.5 and did not want to learn the system so I started running Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I continue to run that and 3.5 now.

We found 4th edition to be a great tournament game but that is about all.

I play with a very high roleplay intensive group. 4th edition just did not work for us.

THe beauty of 4th edition: There are 3 other editions to play in if you do not like it.

I do however use the skill challenge system from 4th edition for 3.5. I ahve always used skill chalenges, it is just nice to now have a designed set. They do it better than my house rules.

 

[jbear]

How about this for Magic Missile (keeping in mind Magic Missile used to have multiple targets as the wizard grew in power):

Atk: Int vs Ref Dmg: 2d4+Int
Special: If the first atk hits, make a secondary attack against a second target 5 from the target
Secondary Atk: Int vs Ref Dmg:1d4+Int
If the secondary attack is successful make a third attack against a third target 2 from secondary target
Third Atack: Int vs Ref Dmg: Int Modifier

Or if this is too focused on damage then the secndary target is pushed 2 and the third target pushed 1.

Haven't read the whole thread but just my 2 cents.I'm really enjoying 4e. But. The Wizard needs a buff or something to make it cooler and more attractive. Of all of the classes out so far the Wizard is the last class I would want to play myself.

If this has been taken into account by WotC Staff and being addressed, I think that will be awesome! Either way it is done, either errata or new At Wills in the Arcane Power Book, I'll be happy.

I think he is correct in that the problem lies in the At Wills. I have read on many posts that the wizard is underpowered in general. The Wizard in our game was responsable for taking down the White Dragon Szarthax (forgive the spelling) from the DMG Adventure after pinning it between a wall, the Fighter and his Flaming Sphere. IMO, maybe the most powerful daily available to any class at Level 1.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I ran a few months of 4th edition with friends of mine whom I have not gamed with since first edition D&D. They were VERY enthusiastic about 4th. SO I agreed to run 4th edition.

We did not make it through Keep on the Shadowfell, because it was a GRIND, and a very bad start for 4e which I was enthusiastic about but skeptical.

So I ran soe scenarios. My enthusiastic Players soon got bored with 4e. They never played 3.5 and did not want to learn the system so I started running Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I continue to run that and 3.5 now.

We found 4th edition to be a great tournament game but that is about all.

I play with a very high roleplay intensive group. 4th edition just did not work for us.

THe beauty of 4th edition: There are 3 other editions to play in if you do not like it.

I do however use the skill challenge system from 4th edition for 3.5. I ahve always used skill chalenges, it is just nice to now have a designed set. They do it better than my house rules.

I think you have accidentally posted this here rather than in the "why I don't play 4e any more" thread. Please make sure you post things in the correct thread, and keep things on topic.

Thanks

 

[Kraydak]

Don't you think it treads on the toes of an epic feat?

Spell Accuracy [Wizard]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: You can omit a number of squares from the area of effect of any of your area or close wizard powers. This number can’t exceed your Wisdom modifier.

(and ranged burst at-wills basically just means Scorching Burst, which is a bit specific for a feat, surely?)

Cheers

The problem is that Spell Accuracy should be a wizard class feature, the same way it is with every other AoEing class (implicitly, in the individual power descriptions, rather than explicitly in the class feature section).

If only one controller has to deal with hitting friendlies, then they need a lot more base power to make up for the logistical difficulties. The wizard's powers aren't that strong (weaker than similar cleric powers when the comparison can be made), so further weakening the wizard by making him deal with hitting friendlies fails once more controllers get implemented.

If you *must* keep the feat, and *must* keep it Epic tier, then don't give the individual wizard AoE powers auto-targeting, do give the wizard an auto-targeting class feature and leave the feat for wizard MCing.

 

[Kitirat]

Wizard Alterations

Here is what we did in my group and it has worked out awesomely.

It has greatly enhanced the game and made him feel like a controller.

a. Thunderwave knocks prone on a critical.

b. Ray of Frost is a maximum of 2 squares movement, period (the way we originally played slow) and the target grants combat advantage if it moves.

c. Magic Missile can hit 2 targets if they are within 3 squares of each other. If it targets 1, it pushes 1. (if a control wizard, pushes both targets).

d. Cloud of Daggers gains: Sustain Minor

e. Scorching Burst goes to base 2d4 damage (brutal 1 if war wizard).

f. The Illusionist one allows a slide one when it hits.

I talk more about it in this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/248454-difference.html

It has greatly increased the wizards enjoyment of the game and others have noted it makes him feel a lot more controllery.

See ya,
Ken

 

[RandomChance]

"Teamwork" and wizard powers

A common idea that keeps being suggested is that players/DM's who think there is something a little week about the wizard at-wills are "doing it wrong" and that they should be using more team work or working harder arrange opponents into tight groups for AOEs.

The problem there is that it _not_ good team work to ask your party to use their less damaging powers, encounter powers, etc to control the battle field so the wizard can hit the bad guys with a weak AOE. Either the AOE's need to do enough damage/effect that its obviously beneficial to reduce the damage output of 2 or 3 other characters in exchange for the wizard having a moment of glory, or the AOE's need to be more generally useful without cooperation.

The other idea being suggested is that getting a AOE cluster should be "easy" using things like Thunderwave, or other "channeling" powers- unfortunatly unless you want to spend an action point just to get off your 1d6 aoe, the critters you herd are probably going to get right back out of the spot you picked for them on their turn.

Side note on Thunderwave - If your DM follows the small note that says that any spell that targets a creature can also target an object, thunderwave is one if the best utilitiy/RP powers in the game. You basically get a hamfisted Telekenesis that allows you to bust down doors, blow open gates, move furniture, clear boulders, and possibly knock down small structures - It doesn't have a weight or size limit! If it can push a gargantuan creature weighing several tons and occuping 8 squares around, that locked door is just kindling. Now if only when you blew something across the room into a wall or furniture it would take damage