Mechanic to Encourage Training

[Mark Causey]

I've been considering implementing the following rules:

For characters suffering from multi-classing XP penalty: If the character can convince some PC or NPC that has at least one more level of the class than they have that is causing the multi-class penalty to adventure with them and spend time teaching them, removing the 20% penalty for that class. (As for an NPC, whether hired or a cohort, would obviously reduce the total XP, but I thought that for some characters, that would easily outweigh the 20% loss.)

Taking it in the other direction, for those without a penalty on their XP, could there be a mechanics benefit for bringing along a trainer?

AtR

 

[dragoonm]

I've been considering implementing the following rules:

For characters suffering from multi-classing XP penalty: If the character can convince some PC or NPC that has at least one more level of the class than they have that is causing the multi-class penalty to adventure with them and spend time teaching them, removing the 20% penalty for that class. (As for an NPC, whether hired or a cohort, would obviously reduce the total XP, but I thought that for some characters, that would easily outweigh the 20% loss.)

Taking it in the other direction, for those without a penalty on their XP, could there be a mechanics benefit for bringing along a trainer?

AtR

I could see this being abused. If one trainer is good, then how about several? And what is the time frame you are thinking about? I go on a one day adventure and go up a level, do I then get the new level as the class I am training in. Or do I need to keep a trainer with me to remove the penalty? Just some of the things to think about with this.

 

[Corlon]

I think the entire point of the 20%(!) penalty to XP is that it makes you really really really really really really not want to do that. I think they're pretty much saying "you can't multiclass this way," but because it is certainly possible to do that they left it in the rules.

I think the rule pretty much cuts down (at least a bit) on munchkins, and I could see trainers being abused easily.

Also, in not metagaming thought, the reason they get the xp penalty is because they don't have enough time to trainin all the different classes they have. A trainer might be able to teach them, but if they don't have enough time to practice by themselves, how do they have enough time to work with the teacher?

Just my thoughts.

 

[Mark Causey]

How's this?

Maybe this could be used:

If a character is suffering from an experience penalty from multi-classing, they can alleviate it by hiring the services of a school, guild, or some old master they may encounter. They can train at any time, and for as long as they want (provided they meet the minimum requirements); however, they will only find out if they have benefitted when they have enough experience to go up a level. This will cost them some amount of gold per week and they can learn from as many trainers as are available. Each additional trainer that is equal to at least one level higher in the class that they are training in improves their chances of recouping their experience penalty; most schools with good teachers, however, charge more for their services.

The character in question will study for a number of days equal to the level they are going to acquire x d10 and will be tested at the end by their trainer(s). This test will be designed by the DM to be appropriate for the level they are trying to acquire. Additional attempts after failed tests are up to the trainers. The character will have a competence bonus of +1 per number of trainers (max. +5) added to all their rolls during the test(s).

If the character passes their test, they immediately regain 1d20 + number of trainers (max. +5) experience back with a flash of insight.

For example: Daelric the Great is a Human Bard 4/Rogue 4. He decides that he wants to enhance his fighting abilities and takes a level of fighter. He is now a Bard 4/Rogue 4/Fighter 1 and suffers a 20% penalty to his experience. When he reaches the experience point total to take his 10th character level, he heads back to town to the local Warrior's Guild to receive some training. He will spend 45 days (rolled on 10d10, with 10 being the level he is going to acquire) days studying with them. He has acquired a little wealth in his adventures and hires 3 trainers at 50gp per trainer per tenday, for a total of 3 x 4.5 x 50gp = 675gp. At the end of his training, they give him a test and he receives a +3 competence bonus on all rolls during it. He is successful, and rolls a d20 +3 at the end of it. He gets a 12 on the roll, meaning he immediately gains back 15% of his lost experience. He is now a Bard 4/Rogue 4/Fighter 2, and has another level of fighter to gain to finally get rid of those darn penalties.

 

[rkanodia]

Also, in not metagaming thought, the reason they get the xp penalty is because they don't have enough time to trainin all the different classes they have. A trainer might be able to teach them, but if they don't have enough time to practice by themselves, how do they have enough time to work with the teacher?

I don't understand this line of reasoning. This is already represented by the character not gaining full progression in each class; that is to say, when the party hits 10th level, Joe Singleclass is a Ftr/10, but Jonny the Munchkin is, say, Rog3/Ftr5/Clr2, not Rog10/Ftr10/Clr10.

To put it a different way, think about 'retired' adventurers and the like. Do they lose their class levels because they aren't training? No, only a level drain effect does that. Similarly, a multiclass character who was a 10th level Barbarian before becoming a Sorceror doesn't have to do anything at all involving weapons or rage to maintain his 10th level Barbarian status.

As far as 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks', this is already represented by the fact that the Bar10/SorX needs a LOT more experience to reach SorX than a single-classes SorX, because he's starting his Sorceror progression much further down the XP table.

 

[Mark Causey]

If any two of your multiclass character's classes are two or more levels apart, the strain of developing and maintaining different skills at different levels takes its toll.

the reason they get the xp penalty is because they don't have enough time to train in all the different classes they have.

I think those two statements pretty much agree with each other.

AtR

P.S. Corlon, I guess what I was thinking was this: they couldn't maintain their disparate skills whilst adventuring, and thus weren't able to get the most out of the encounters they were in, but if they took the time off and practiced, with a guided hand, might they recoup their losses?

 

[rkanodia]

Huh, I never actually read that passage. I guess that settles that. I still don't agree with it.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

I still don't agree with it.

I never agreed with it, either (+1 Skill Point per level gained in Favored at my table).

 

[Mark Causey]

Bendris, I think I like your idea better; rewarding focus from the get go as opposed to penalizing later on.

If I went with your system of removing XP penalty for multiclassing and had the +1 Skill points per level so long as the classes weren't disparate, what would you say would be appropriate for a reward for receiving training when leveling up? An additional skill point? Or something radical, like 1/2 a feat or something (receiving an additional feat for every two levels of successful training)? I'd just like to have something different to offer my players to reconcile the fact that I don't like seemingly spontaneous insight into class abilities.

AtR

 

[glass]

Did you realise that with a standard 4 character party, adding a 5th member as per your house rule trades a 20% penalty for the multi-classed character for an effective -20% penalty for everyone, assuming the same challenges?

Of course the maths gets better if you consider a larger party, and survivability goes up with the extra member.

Just an observation.


glass.