Mechanics and Roleplaying

[GoodKingJayIII]

Given that the standard array (16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10) is now the primary method recommended for character generation, the limited number of powers selection, and number of options (feats, paragon paths, epic destinies), how do you think that will impact you when creating your own characters, and your players when faced with creating theirs?

On the one hand, I'm concerned that there is going to be very little statistical and mechanical variance between characters of the same class. With a standard array and limited selection of powers over levels, I worry there will not be enough mechanical differences between characters of a given level. While calling 4e nothing more than an "overblown mini game" is unwarranted in my mind, I can understand that there is a genuine concern over the game becoming too simple, to the point of uniformity.

On the other hand, my feeling is: so what? How much impact does my character's mechanics have on his character, i.e., his personality, traits, attitude, outlook, etc. I also think that part of my concern (the lack of options) will be alleviated as more and more books are released.

This is not meant to be a negative post. Just some thoughts I'm sharing to hopefully engender discussion. There is a tendency around here to label those who feel positively about the new edition as thoughtless fanbois and grrls, and those who feel negatively as haters and trolls (a trap I have fallen into myself before, and I hope never to do again). I am neither of those things, and would simply like to enjoy the thoughtful discussion I have experienced here in the past.

 

[Cheesepie]

If little statistical variance is a problem to you, just roll up stats instead.

Considering the ridiculous amounts of possible permutations and combinations of powers for each class, not even considering multiclassing and paragon paths and feats and trained skills, from only the PHB, I don't think mechanical variance is really a problem.

 

[Counterspin]

With the exception of spellcasters, who have fewer choices, I'd say that 4e gives a lot more room for mechanical differentiation. Start off with the fact you get 6 feats a tier, add in the two +1 bumps you assign to different stats every four levels, keep in mind subclasses. While you end up with all of your at-wills, you generally get your daily/encounters/utilities from a list of four or so for each slot. That seems like it almost reaches the level of 3e wizards to me, it's just that the decisions are split into smaller packets.

 

[edveal]

You bring up some good points. I for one did not realize that the standard array (16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10) is now the primary method recommended for character generation. If this is in fact the case I will house rule around it, it is only a recommendation after all.

But as to your suggestion that pc's of the same class will end up being too similar, this is a concern to me. But not having the books in hand I have no way of determining truly what the variations might actually be. Do you have book in hand?

 

[Cheesepie]

Stat array is not the primary method recommended by any means. It's merely the first stat generation choice presented. Right below it is point buy and 4d6 drop one.

 

[AllisterH]

No offense GoodKingJayIII but I keep seeing people say this.

"Limited selection of options". That's only true if you were a spellcaster. Why is it that people ignore how much of a gain both rogues and fighter got out of the change?

Why no love for the non-melee classes? Is this another one of those "Fighters don't deserve nice things" statements I've always seen?

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Stat array is not the primary method recommended by any means. It's merely the first stat generation choice presented. Right below it is point buy and 4d6 drop one.

Sorry if I was misleading. Yes, there are other options besides the standard array. However, being the first option listed, it is the primary option by definition. I can see at least some folks using it because it appears to be the default option, if for no other reason.

But my thoughts aren't just about stat generation, but the other options that go into mechanical character creation as well.

 

[Cheesepie]

And those folks would be wrong!

What was the order of stat generation methods in the 3.5 PHB, I wonder? I cannot recall, and cannot check right now!

 

[Cadfan]

I, for one, embrace the array.

I've been thinking about it for a while, and have concluded that I really, really like it. I used to be a point-buy kind of guy, but not anymore.

I've never felt that ability scores meaningfully impacted my roleplaying, so I don't expect any change there.

I do expect there to be a certain degree of uniformity in ability score distributions, at least, within race/class/subclass combinations. That is, I expect that most or all Eladrin Tactical Warlords will distribute their ability scores something like Str 16, Int 14, Cha 13, Con 12, Dex 11, Wis 10.

But so what?

First of all, Eladrin/Tactical/Warlord is already a pretty narrow category.

Second, there are a LOT of other choices to make in character creation besides just ability score distribution. There are feats, trained skills, at will powers, encounter powers, and daily powers. I expect a lot more variation in those.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

No offense GoodKingJayIII but I keep seeing people say this.

"Limited selection of options". That's only true if you were a spellcaster. Why is it that people ignore how much of a gain both rogues and fighter got out of the change?

Why no love for the non-melee classes? Is this another one of those "Fighters don't deserve nice things" statements I've always seen?

Hmmm... perhaps I'm not being as clear as I think.

I'm not comparing classes across editions. I'm comparing them within the edition. I'm not really discussing how Fighters "gained" options or Wizards "lost" options. I think that's a difficult discussion to have, because 3e and 4e are incredibly different.

In other words, how different can 2 4e fighters really look, mechanically?