D&D 5E Melee Ranger Great Weapon Master

[Mistwell]

Melee Rangers are not well supported in the guides, but I think it's possible to make a very competitive one. I'd like people's thoughts on that concept, and how to execute it.

Here is an example:

Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Chr 8
Race: Human: +1 Str, +1 Wis or Con, Skill, Feat: Great Weapon Master (When dropping foe to 0 or scoring Crit, 2nd attack as bonus action; and -5 to attack bonus for +10 to damage)
Fighter 1: Str & Con Saves (instead of Dex), Heavy Armor Proficiency, Great Weapon Fighting, Second Wind, one less skill;
Ranger X (Hunter): Defense (+1 AC) and Horde Breaker (2nd attack on adjacent foe each round).

Armor: Plate (as soon as possible, using down-time and artisan tool proficiency to help craft for half price if needed)
Weapon: Greatsword (2d6 Damage, Heavy, Two-Handed)
Typical Spells: Hunter's Mark (Concentration)

Why the multiclassing? Plate Armor allows me to lower (not dump) Dex. I don't need to go early in the round, and Dex saves are typically the least deadly of the three main saves. Sure, I might use a ranged weapon on rare occassion, but I can use Javelins most of the time for that (which use strength). The fighter level also give me Great Weapon Fighting (re-roll 1s and 2s) which works very well with a Greatsword (2d6 Damage means re-roll applies to each die). Second Wind doesn't hurt, and will help at early levels a bit. The Con save proficiency is also typically more helpful than the Dex proficiency, and helps with Concentration checks.

In a typical round this character will move in beside a group of foes. If their AC is low, he will take a -5 to attack for +10 damage. The first hit will do 2d6 (re-roll 1s and 2s) which is around 8 damage +3 for strength +10 from the feat for about 21 damage. Whether I hit or miss, Horde Breaker then activates to give me a second attack against an adjacent foe for the same damage on a hit. And then if either of those attacks kills or crits a foe, the feat triggers a third attack which again does the same damage on a hit. None of this is counting potential use of Hunter's Mark, which is likely applied in the first round of hustling to get next to the foes (though I can only apply/switch it in a round when I am not using a bonus action for the feats).

Yes, Hunter's Mark is concentration, but I find it very rare that enough damage is done to challenge a meaningful concentration check. Particularly since this guy has a higher AC (18 from Plate, +1 from Defense, total 19) and a pretty good Con, and proficiency with Con saves - all stuff most Rangers don't get.

Against a horde of weaker foes (which is not unusual at all, particularly in Adventurer's League which is where this PC will be playing), if all three attacks hit it's an average of 63 damage a round, not counting any possible usage of Hunter's Mark. And this is at relatively low levels (Horde Breaker is the last to kick in at 4th level for this PC).

I expect this character will not be needed for higher levels given the structure of our Adventurer's League play (I have a Bard for higher level play). So the lack of this strategy scaling well at high levels is not of great import to me.

I'd like some thoughts/criticisms/ideas on this build, and related Melee Ranger builds and the concept in general. Any suggestions for changes? Questions? Comments? Is a Ranger really an archer or a beast's pal in your mind, and melee just isn't the right concept for the class?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'm not sure if that really counts as a Great Weapon Ranger, since the majority of the necessary Great Weapon abilities are derived from the Fighter class.

 

[Paraxis]

Seems like a solid idea. The only issue I see is you need a 13 Dex to multiclass with Ranger.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not sure if that really counts as a Great Weapon Ranger, since the majority of the necessary Great Weapon abilities are derived from the Fighter class.

One ability is of fighter-origin (Great Weapon Fighting) and it's a fairly minor portion of this overall build. Horde Breaker, which contributes an extra attack, and the Great Weapon Master (which grants an extra attack and more damage) are far more significant. And of course it goes on from there...you continue to gain Ranger benefits and spells and such as you go. It's just a single level of Fighter.

Seems like a solid idea. The only issue I see is you need a 13 Dex to multiclass with Ranger.

I missed that...I had assumed it was Dex or Str for Ranger and didn't realize the Dex-bias was built into the multiclass rules for Ranger. OK then, I'd drop one point of Wis (Wis 13 now) for one point of Dex (Dex 13 now), and one point of either Int or Chr (10 to 11 or 8 to 9). Or I could drop a point of Int for the point in Dex.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

One ability is of fighter-origin (Great Weapon Fighting) and it's a fairly minor portion of this overall build.

It's also heavy armor, which is your justification for being able to dump Dexterity.

You need Strength because all great weapons use Strength to hit, but without heavy armor, you're forced to put at least a 14 into Dex, and even then you still fall short on AC.

 

[Mistwell]

It's also heavy armor, which is your justification for being able to dump Dexterity.

First I didn't dump Dex (you can't). Second, the armor is even less unique to the Fighter. That could have been any of several classes (like Cleric or Paladin), or a feat. Thus...not a fighter build per-se. And as the build requires a 13 dex already, we're talking a difference of one single ability point to get it up to speed for medium armor anyway. Again, clearly not a major element of this build.

You need Strength because all great weapons use Strength to hit, but without heavy armor, you're forced to put at least a 14 into Dex, and even then you still fall short on AC.

Why would you fall short on AC if you went 14 Dex and Half-Plate? It's really not that important either way. Horde Breaker, and all the spells and extra attack and other ranger bits that come after, are more important for the theme here. The Fighter 1 is just a useful but not crucial element of this. As mentioned above - this is more along the lines of the traditional Strider character...the Ranger who would be King, with a big sword remade and eventual armor that came with it, travelling across the realm and fighting off the hordes. The theme though is still Ranger - more the original ranger than anything else.

More important still...why does it matter? Do you think I should be taking more fighter levels? What are you getting at?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

More important still...why does it matter? Do you think I should be taking more fighter levels? What are you getting at?

If you're talking about melee Rangers, just in general, then it should be applicable to everyone who might want to play a melee Ranger. Not every game uses feats or multi-classing, though, and without those it is difficult to get any take-away on the concept of melee Ranger.

Or I suppose, to answer the last question from the original post, a Ranger is necessarily either a two-weapon or archery character. It's a heavy focus on Dex over Strength, in either case. If you want to add elements of being Strength-based (like using a greatsword), then all of that needs to come from somewhere else because that's not what the Ranger is at all. At best, the Ranger might offer some synergy to add onto that framework, but the same could be said for a Warlock or a Cleric.

 

[Mistwell]

If you're talking about melee Rangers, just in general, then it should be applicable to everyone who might want to play a melee Ranger. Not every game uses feats or multi-classing, though, and without those it is difficult to get any take-away on the concept of melee Ranger.

Or I suppose, to answer the last question from the original post, a Ranger is necessarily either a two-weapon or archery character. It's a heavy focus on Dex over Strength, in either case. If you want to add elements of being Strength-based (like using a greatsword), then all of that needs to come from somewhere else because that's not what the Ranger is at all. At best, the Ranger might offer some synergy to add onto that framework, but the same could be said for a Warlock or a Cleric.

OK well I disagree. Most Ranger abilities explicitly work with melee attacks. Multiclassing isn't required. Even feats are not required. Horde Breaker, Colossus Slayer, most of their spells, they all work with a two handed weapon or sword and board (as do beast companions). The Dueling ability, one of four options they get, explicitly isn't for archery or two-weapon fighting (and they also get proficiency with shields, which doesn't work with archery or two-weapon fighting either).

If you don't want to play one like this - you're free to not play one. But no reason to crap on the thread because it doesn't match your pre-conceived notions of what a Ranger must be. It's obviously not "necessarily" either two-weapon or archery - as you CAN do it with sword and board or two-handed. And this thread is about one of those concepts. If you have something to add to help me realize that concept, great. I don't care about any sort of "Ranger purity" though. You can call it a bunny rabbit for all I care. I'd like most levels to be in Ranger, and the concept to center on using a melee weapon two-handed. That's what I looking for help with. I hope you can help.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'd like some thoughts/criticisms/ideas on this build, and related Melee Ranger builds and the concept in general. Any suggestions for changes? Questions? Comments? Is a Ranger really an archer or a beast's pal in your mind, and melee just isn't the right concept for the class?

My criticism is that the Ranger concept isn't designed for great weapons. Rangers are primarily designed to be archers, and in melee they are designed for two-weapon fighting. It's a Dex-based class. Pushing a Strength-based weapon onto them creates an issue with multiple-ability-dependency, and even with perfect stats their AC is still going to suffer compared to a Fighter or Paladin.

The greatsword works well with Horde Breaker, but you're putting all of your eggs into one basket that your single attack (prior to level 5) will hit. Two-weapon fighting works better with Hunter's Mark after it's up (4d6+8, compared to 3d6+4), but the greatsword works better in the first round of combat (3d6+4 rather than 2d6+4, since you can't take a bonus action for the off-hand attack in the same round you cast Hunter's Mark) or any round of combat where you kill an enemy (where you'll need the bonus action to transfer the Mark). Of course, if you were going to face mainly large creatures, then you would probably be better off with taking Colossus Slayer or Giant Killer instead of Horde Breaker in the first place. If you are facing a lot of small creatures, then I would definitely give the edge to a greatsword.

An important factor to consider is overkill, though. If the hordes of enemies are likely to be goblins or kobolds rather than orcs or gnolls, then it doesn't matter whether you hit for 1d6+4 or 3d6+4. That's not something you have much control over, though.

Another factor which might be beyond your control is that Horde Breaker requires a DM committed to enabling you if you hope to get much mileage out of it, since it requires that your new target be within five feet of your old one. Personally, I can't imagine any humanoid being dumb enough to fall for that after they see it in action once; it's trivial to not stand within five feet of an ally, unless the whole fight takes place in a ten-foot-wide corridor.

So over all, the idea of a greatsword ranger is only slightly unorthodox, and only slightly inferior to the obvious ranger builds, but it could still shine in the right situations (which may or may not ever align for you, depending on the DM).

 

[Jaelommiss]

I've been playing a str based ranger for a few months now and it's been incredibly powerful. Spell-less human ranger, with polearm master and mounted combatant. We use point buy with 29 instead of 27 points. We started at level 5, and are now approaching 8. My stats are 16/12/14/10/14/10.

Let me explain some of my choices and how they interact.

Spell-less ranger gives me healing poultices. I can make 2 (Wis mod) per day, each healing for 4d6 (half ranger level, rounded up). They take a minute to apply, but are great when we don't have an entire hour.

I also get a handful of maneuvers and superiority dice. I chose trip attack, menacing attack (allows me to stop enemies coming for me), and maneuvering attack (used with mounted combatant for incredible movement rates). Recharging on a short rest is nice, too.

Without spells, I no longer need to use my bonus action to cast/move Hunter's Mark. This allows polearm master to grant an extra attack every turn. Getting an AoO when someone comes within ten feet of me is powerful. Adding trip attack to that to stop them reaching me altogether is just cruel. Since I have not boosted my str to 20 yet I find the extra attack is worth far more than the -5/+10 from GWM.

Mounted combatant gives me a ton of mobility and almost entirely removes the need for armour. I can command my horse to dash (no action by me, PHB 198) for 120 feet per round. Attacking with reach means I almost never provoke AoO as I ride by enemies. I can reliably retreat far enough that I am at far range to my enemies' ranged attacks. When I add a maneuvering attack I can get even further away. On top of that I have advantage on attacks against medium or smaller creatures that aren't mounted. If necessary I can throw javelins as I ride by and avoid danger altogether.

Human - Polearm master
2nd level - Defense fighting style, +1 AC
3rd level - Hunter archetype, Horde Breaker. At level 5 I was able to make three, often four, attacks on my turn for 3d10+1d4+12. I get an AoO against on approaching foe roughly every other turn. Being able to drop several weak enemies is great in a party with limited healing. Being able to burn all my superiority dice to frighten a powerful enemy or use up Legendary Resistance charges is excellent when I can get them back on a short rest.
4th level - Mounted combatant feat.
5th level - Started play here. Extra attack.
6th level - More favoured enemy and natural explorer. Always nice.
7th level - Escape the Horde. This made me the ultimate skirmisher. Let's say that I want to hit the back rank wizard but will take attacks to reach there (we'll assume that I can move enough on a dashing horse). The fastest way to stop me is to take down my mount. Horse triggers AoO, mounted combatant redirects it at me, and escape the horde imposes disadvantage. It has also come in handy when fighting enemies that the DM gave polearm master. I can approach in relative safety since they will have disadvantage.

When I level up I am considering either boosting wisdom for an extra poultice each day and to enhance my tracking capabilities, or taking the healer feat. The part consists of a two weapon fighter, a barbarian, and a wizard. My DM gave me a belt of stone giant strength (despite my insistence that I would become too powerful), otherwise I would be boosting Str instead. Surprisingly the belt hasn't been as devastating as I had anticipated.

In play it has been impossibly powerful. I found found it effective to charge the enemy, grapple two enemies, ride a long distance away, and dump them. It takes two enemies out of the fight for a couple of rounds.

Inside caves and dungeons I use a shield and quarterstaff when I need to fight on the front line. If someone else, such as a raging barbarian, wants to soak damage then I fight from the second rank using my polearm. In the open mounted combatant is great for drawing enemy fire while the party approaches. Being able to close with the enemy a turn before my party and run away is almost like getting a surprise round at the start of the fight. Being able to strike anywhere and apply status effects on priority targets is great. If someone charges the wizard and while he is nearby to me I can strike the enemy and add a menacing attack. The enemy now has disadvantage on his attack and can't get any closer.


I realize that this doesn't directly help you with your GWM ranger. I just wanted to say that it is possible to have a str ranger that is competitive. I would highly recommend looking at the spell-less ranger though. During fights I function like a battlemaster fighter with slightly lower AC (scale give me 16 instead of the 19 I would get from plate). Outside of fights I can heal the party and contribute significantly to exploration or environmental challenges. From what I've found after playing a few rangers is that their real strength is in sheer flexibility. My ranger heals, navigates the wilderness, and scouts ahead. In fights I create weaknesses in the opponents' positions, limit enemy movement, and soften up targets for the barbarian and fighter to finish off. If I relied entirely on just dealing HP damage I would never reach my full potential.