Merging Paizo's Kingmaker into an existing 4E game?

[NewJeffCT]

I haven't actually looked at these events in the original adventure at all, so it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about, but these sorts of contests strike me as excellent material to convert into skill challenges, which means you can ignore the convoluted/boring/time-consuming mechanical implementations they have in the original adventure.

I was thinking that myself - run it as a bunch of skill challenges.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

The first four Kingmaker modules work well (I'm unimpressed with 5 and won't be buying 6). 1 is all about our band of PCs carving out a kingdom based on untamed wilderness (with poor topography - the rivers flow away from the plains and into the hills (and I have players who notice this sort of detail).

If you can help someone out who is a little less geographically literate than your group as this didn't ring any warning bells for me. What I saw was:

*The Thorn river empties east out of the forest into the Shrike which itself empties into the Tuskwater lake.
* The Skunk also empties into the Tuskwater from the forest.
* The Gudrin river flows from Lake Silverstep at the foot of the mountains to the Tuskwater.
*The Tuskwater empties into the Candlemere as does the Murque river from the western forest.
*The Candlemere flow continues south joining with the Little Sellen to flow further south where eventually it joins with the East Sellen before eventually flowing to the west into Lake Encarthan.

Generally the flow seems to be going south with the various rivers meeting at the Tuskwater and Candlemere before flowing further south. I'm not quite sure where the flow is going wrong. Can you help me out here?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Neonchameleon]

I was thinking that myself - run it as a bunch of skill challenges.

That's how I'd do it. But the rest of the module is uninspired.

Generally the flow seems to be going south with the various rivers meeting at the Tuskwater and Candlemere before flowing further south. I'm not quite sure where the flow is going wrong. Can you help me out here?

The plains are in the north. Hills get gradually higher as you go into them (there being normally no non-arbitrary marker for which the first hill is) and rivers normally flow out of the hills and into the plains. Which means that without odd topography, the rivers are flowing uphill.

 

[NewJeffCT]

That's how I'd do it. But the rest of the module is uninspired.



The plains are in the north. Hills get gradually higher as you go into them (there being normally no non-arbitrary marker for which the first hill is) and rivers normally flow out of the hills and into the plains. Which means that without odd topography, the rivers are flowing uphill.

I would think you could just say they're going downhill and ending in the plains, instead of going uphill, no? I don't have the adventures yet, so I have not seen the maps.

 

[Neonchameleon]

They don't even reach the plains and clearly flow the other way. We declared the plain to be a plateau as the best option available.

 

[Bluenose]

The plains are in the north. Hills get gradually higher as you go into them (there being normally no non-arbitrary marker for which the first hill is) and rivers normally flow out of the hills and into the plains. Which means that without odd topography, the rivers are flowing uphill.

The way I'd get round it is to treat the plains area as being part of a plateau, a basically flat area suitable just at a high altitude. The hills are the area along the edge of the plateau, where it starts to descend into a lower area. For comparison, though the scale is much larger, the Tibetan plateau, Himalayas, Northern India. Rivers flow off the highland area through the hills and into the lowlands. Not that I think this is great geography.

Edit: Anyone have a link to a map? I am in theory a physical geography graduate, so I might be able to make sense of it.

 

[deinol]

Am I the only one who things the map is the least important aspect of the adventure? The only real advantage of using the actual map is that if you buy the map folio it is very pretty and professionally done.

But the best part of the adventure is how modular it is. Encounters or lairs are located in a hex. You can lift the encounters and drop them on whatever hex map you want. Grab hexographer and draw your own if you like. Pull out your old Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk hex maps and use those if you want.

If you are converting into an existing campaign, use it to inspire and expand the geography your group already knows. Making the wilderness a bit more dangerous is easy. If a kobold lair is too low level, make it a lizardfolk tribe but keep the same basic map and politics.

The strength of Kingmaker is in how flexible it is.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Am I the only one who things the map is the least important aspect of the adventure? The only real advantage of using the actual map is that if you buy the map folio it is very pretty and professionally done.

But the best part of the adventure is how modular it is. Encounters or lairs are located in a hex. You can lift the encounters and drop them on whatever hex map you want. Grab hexographer and draw your own if you like. Pull out your old Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk hex maps and use those if you want.

If you are converting into an existing campaign, use it to inspire and expand the geography your group already knows. Making the wilderness a bit more dangerous is easy. If a kobold lair is too low level, make it a lizardfolk tribe but keep the same basic map and politics.

The strength of Kingmaker is in how flexible it is.

thanks - good comment

 

[buddhafrog]

Any more thoughts/reviews/advice/comments from people who are run this in 4e?

I'm looking at maybe starting 4e Kingmaker with several ESL classes. I like the kingdom making aspect as far as ESL conversation and homework opportunities and I think kids would get a kick out of building their kingdom.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Any more thoughts/reviews/advice/comments from people who are run this in 4e?

I'm looking at maybe starting 4e Kingmaker with several ESL classes. I like the kingdom making aspect as far as ESL conversation and homework opportunities and I think kids would get a kick out of building their kingdom.

I would think it's fairly easy to run in 4E - you'll just have to convert the encounters into 4E ones instead of Pathfinder. For most lower level encounters, I would think it's pretty easy using Monster Builder. Maybe numbers will be a bit different with minions, but I think you can retain the overall flavor most of the time.

However, I know little about Kingmaker itself and I'm still learning 4E as well.