Metamagic Feats

[StAlda]

[removed example - since it was getting more attention than the topic]

I have made the rule that you cannot place a 3rd level spell in a 4th level's slot, as the book states, only 3rd level slots. And I've changed Metamagic feats so they no longer raise the spells level but take up another spell slot. To silence a 3rd level spell would take one 3rd level spell slot for the spell and one 1st level spell slot for the Silent Spell Metamagic Feat for that one spell.

Here are the Feats as I use them:

EMPOWER SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a 2nd level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.

ENLARGE SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of close, medium, or long to increase its range by 100%. An enlarged spell with a range of close now has a range of 50 ft. + 5 ft./level, while medium-range spells have a range of 200 ft. + 20 ft./level and long-range spells have a range of 800 ft. + 80 ft./level. An enlarged spell uses up a 1st level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.
Spells whose ranges are not defined by distance, as well as spells whose ranges are not close, medium, or long, do not have increased ranges.

EXTEND SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat. An extended spell uses up a 1st level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.

HEIGHTEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to the maximum the caster can cast). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell by adding the extra spell slot's level to the spell that it modifies. That is to say, if a spellcaster wants to Heighten a Fireball to 6th level, he would allocate one 3rd level spell slot for the Fireball and another 3rd level spell slot for the Heighten Spell Feat. For a 4th level Fireball, the caster would place the Heighten Spell Feat in a 1st level spell slot. All effects dependent on the combined spell levels (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective heightened level.

MAXIMIZE SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. A maximized spell uses up a 3rd level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.
An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result.

QUICKEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a 4th level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.

SILENT SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a 1st level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.

STILL SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A stilled spell can be cast with no somatic components.
Spells without somatic components are not affected. A stilled spell uses up a 1st level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.

WIDEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: You can alter a burst, emanation, line, or spread shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell’s area increase by 100%. A widened spell uses up a 3rd level spell slot in addition to its normal spell slot.
Spells that do not have an area of one of these four sorts are not affected by this feat.

 

[Fieari]

I don't have my books on me at the moment, but from memory, can't you use a higher spell slot to prepare a lower level spell anyway? You don't actually need metamagic to do that... that, or my group has been playing it wrong for a while now.

 

[StAlda]

I don't have my books on me at the moment, but from memory, can't you use a higher spell slot to prepare a lower level spell anyway? You don't actually need metamagic to do that... that, or my group has been playing it wrong for a while now.

Read my second paragraph, for that matter read the first too....
You haven't been playing it wrong.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Read my second paragraph, for that matter read the first too....

Fieari did - you're missing the point. Your players don't need to use the metamagic feats to cast Fireball as a 4th level spell - they can do it without it by the rules. If they know they're going into a battle it's only logical to specialize like they are - especially if there are two wizards! I would suggest that you either give them less warning when they're going to be attacked, or if it really bothers you, get rid of Wizard/Cleric/Druid altogether and use only Sorcerer and a divine equivalent.

All that said, I don't particularly care for the metamagic system in general myself. At one time I was considering something akin to what you have done, but I came to the conclusion it wouldn't work either, and the reason is that the magic system isn't linear, it's exponential in almost every aspect. Realistically a 4th level spell slot is almost always better than a quickened 1st level spell. Same with 3rd level and maximize - there's almost no reason to give up a vastly superior spell slot for a maximized magic missle. In fact, it makes metamagic near useless, since two spells cast are almost always better than one. There may be one or two exceptions, but there are rare cases indeed.

Now, what I would be tempted to do is this, if you're set on using additional spell slots to power the metamagic feats.

Silent, Still - use a spell slot 1 lower. Cantrips use an extra cantrip slot.
Empower, Extend, Widen - use a spell slot of the same level.
Maximize, Quicken - use a spell slot 1 higher.
Heighten - stays as per PHB.

 

[StAlda]

Fieari did - you're missing the point. Your players don't need to use the metamagic feats to cast Fireball as a 4th level spell - they can do it without it by the rules.

here is the quote I was refering too from the first paragraph
"They are not using the silenced spell for ambush or undetection, but just as a bonus for putting the spell in a higher slot." I got the point.

Jesus, This is my first Thread and maybe my last.

Your suggestion has legs too. I will be sticking with my rules, but if I were a reader of this, and not the creator, I'd have to seriously think of which rule set I'd implement - mine at the top or your take on it.

 

[the Jester]

Why do you think spending higher level slots on lower level spells is unbalancing?

I mean, instead of a still fireball, the pcs could be packing stoneskins, fire shields, polymorphs, etc...

If you're worried about 4th-level damage spells, sure there aren't many direct damage spells in the PHB but I still don't think that plugging lower-level spells in that slot breaks anything. I do think that you'll find that your variant metamagic feats cause big problems at higher levels.

For example, if I was a 17th-level wizard, it would certainly be worth it to burn a 3rd and 4th level slot to maximize and quicken a meteor swarm.

I allow the pcs imc to use the 'higher level slot for lower level spell' rule and so far, the only pc that's used it is the cleric; he's spent 7th level slots on heal several times, for instance, and I don't think it's hurt anything.

Just curious as to why you see a problem..?

 

[SteelDraco]

You might try varying the fight conditions, mix things up a bit. If they suddenly fight creatures that are immune to fire and electricity, they'll think a bit about loading up on all one type of spell. If they need to do some kind of recon or investigation, and all the party has prepared are combat spells, they'll be in trouble. That would make them think about keeping a balanced spell roster.

But really, this kind of thing is what wizards are good at. If they know what they're going to be facing, and can plan for it, they SHOULD be able to do some nasty preparation stuff. That's one of the big advantages they have over sorcerers.

That said, I agree with Jester in that your proposal would start to break down at higher levels. It works all right at low levels, but a high level caster would be able to do some extremely powerful things, and would create more problems than what you're seeing now.

One thing I've seen tried for metamagic spells is spells using multiple slots - so instead of preparing an Empowered Fireball with a 5th level spell slot, you'd use two 3rd level slots for the one spell. This works pretty decently, though it doesn't have as much room for differentiation between feats as some other systems.

 

[Stalker0]

Also, just to make sure you know, when they put that fireball in the 4th level slot, it still has the save DC for a 3rd level spell.... only heighten spell actually raises the dc.

 

[StAlda]

Well, generally 2nd level and 4th level, at least, don't have many offensive spells - not to the likes of MM and Fireball/Lightning Bolt.

The example above about the party knowing they were going into a fight, was an example. An example, not an indictment to my DM skills or lack of. I don't make sweeping changes to the game based on one incident.

A 17th level Wizard has 4 3rd levels and 4 4th levels (ability score bonuses not withstanding). If they want to burn a quarter of the 3rd and 4th level spells for one higher level spell, go for it. Wouldn't LightPhoenix's approach be worse at high levels, I would never spend an 8th level to silence a 9th level.

 

[StAlda]

removed