metamagic is giving me a headache

[fl8m]

I'm not sure how this works if i Maximise a spell and empower it i've added 5 levels to the spell but what did i do to the amount of damage?

for example i take a fireball 10d6 maximise it for 60dmg
if i empower it it does 1.5 damage (added to the total?)

how do these work together? do i get 60x1.5 for 90 damage?

also how does maximising a spell twice have any effect? or empowering?

thanks for the help

 

[Crothian]

They always modify the base spell. So, the empowered maximized would be 60 for the Maximised + 50% of 10d6. For the double empowered it would be 10d6 +50% +50%

 

[Caliber]

Like Crothian was saying, a Maximized Empowered Fireball would do 60 + 10d6/2 (that is, assuming 10th level)

A Maximized Empoweredx2 Fireball would do 60 + 10d6. Pretty nasty.

Some people disagree with allowing multiple Metamagics to stack with each other (ie, allowing you to double Empower something) although by the Core Rules it is alright. At higher levels, some claim in creates some imbalances. But I defintely DON'T want to open up that can of worms here.

 

[Oni]

For maximize and empower you would roll the damage dice say 10d6 and take half that result and add it to the maximized damage which would be 60.

60+ (10d6/2)

I'm pretty sure I haven't messed that up.

 

[fl8m]

so with the maximized empowered fireball i take the 60 and roll 10d6 then divide the total by half. that works. i knew the 90 wasn't right i just didn't know why thanks again

 

[dcollins]

for example i take a fireball 10d6 maximise it for 60dmg
if i empower it it does 1.5 damage (added to the total?)

You know, this is the specific example of stacking up metamagic on PHB p. 83, under the "Maximize Spell" feat:

An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result.

So for a 10-die fireball, that 60 points, plus 10d6 / 2.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So if I cast an Empowered, Persistent Mirror Image, do I get 12 images for 1 minute/level (Empowered), at which point 4 of them wink out and 8 of them remain for 24 hours (Persistent)?

An Extended, Maximised Bull's Strength gives a +5 bonus to Str for 16 hours (Maximised), and 1d4+1 for another 16 (Extended)?

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

Originally posted by Hypersmurf
So if I cast an Empowered, Persistent Mirror Image, do I get 12 images for 1 minute/level (Empowered), at which point 4 of them wink out and 8 of them remain for 24 hours (Persistent)?

An Extended, Maximised Bull's Strength gives a +5 bonus to Str for 16 hours (Maximised), and 1d4+1 for another 16 (Extended)?

-Hyp.

LOL...

That is what WotC would have you believe.

A Persistent Empowered Mirror Image is an 8th level spell for goodness sake, I'd grant you 50% more images for the full 24 hours, until the image got struck by something.

A Maximised Extended Bull's Strength is a 7th level spell... Why not grant +5 for the full 32(?) hours? It just removes some book keeping. The player is paying through the nose for something readily available, and easily dispelled.

 

[Bhaal]

So if I cast an Empowered, Persistent Mirror Image, do I get 12 images for 1 minute/level (Empowered), at which point 4 of them wink out and 8 of them remain for 24 hours (Persistent)?

An Extended, Maximised Bull's Strength gives a +5 bonus to Str for 16 hours (Maximised), and 1d4+1 for another 16 (Extended)?

-Hyp.

I think that rule of each benefitting from the base spell is only for empowered/maximized metamagics, as it lists those two specifically.

Otherwise you'll have really weird stuff come up like an enlarged, empowered magic missile that does 1.5*(1d4+1) damage within 170 feet, and between 171 and 340 feet it does 1d4+1 damage.

 

[Pax]

All this is a good reason why, IMC at least, metamagicks should stack fully on each other (after all, the COSTS stack, right?).

Then again, IMC, the metamagicks are all getting revised, sometimes heavily. Empower, for example, no longer is a 50% increase in output. Instead, any and all dice involved are upped by one "Step" (so an empowered Fireball does d8's, not d6's). The cost is much less -- last revision had a slight DC penalty (1 or 2 points), and subdual damage to the spellcaster equal to the spell's level (I dislike level-increase costs for metamagicks *shrug*).

IMO though, most of the metamagicks as presented just don't ... *do* much for me (non-mechanically I mean). Hene my decision to try my hand at rewriting them.