Metamagic & Spell-Like Abilities

[saucercrab]

I know it's not normally feasible to combine the two, but there are some hinky monsters out there... there's at least one official creature that casts spells as if they are SPAs.

Is there a rule anywhere that directly states that metamagic feats cannot be used with SPAs? I've searched the core books & found nada. I also checked the other MMs & SS with the same result.

 

[reveal]

Rules of the Game: All About Spell-Like Abilities

A spell-like ability is not subject to metamagic. For many of the same reasons a spell-like ability cannot be countered, it also cannot be modified through metamagic in any way. Some creatures have special feats that allow them to duplicate the effects of metamagic on their spell-like abilities (such as the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat). It's also possible for a creature to have a spell-like ability that duplicates spells already altered by metamagic. For example, the archmage prestige class allows a character to make a spell modified by metamagic into a spell-like ability.

 

[Shariell]

there are reference in the various feats: in the metamagic feats the text is refered to SPELLS (not spell like abilities) and spell slots (spell like abilities use no slots).
In the metamagic feats for the spell like abilities, is clearly stated they are valid for spell like abilities.

So, any specified rules is redundant, since the feats itself explain how to use it.

Check monster manual 3.5, Monster manual 2, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of exalthed deeds for some feats to apply over spell like abilities.

ByE

 

[reveal]

there are reference in the various feats: in the metamagic feats the text is refered to SPELLS (not spell like abilities) and spell slots (spell like abilities use no slots).
In the metamagic feats for the spell like abilities, is clearly stated they are valid for spell like abilities.

So, any specified rules is redundant, since the feats itself explain how to use it.

Check monster manual 3.5, Monster manual 2, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of exalthed deeds for some feats to apply over spell like abilities.

ByE

Or he could read what I posted.

 

[Thanee]

Check monster manual 3.5, Monster manual 2, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of exalthed deeds for some feats to apply over spell like abilities.

Complete Arcane, too.

Book of Vile Darkness (at least, probably also Monster Manual 2) is outdated and not useable in 3.5 (the meta-SLA feats, I mean).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

I know it's not normally feasible to combine the two, but there are some hinky monsters out there... there's at least one official creature that casts spells as if they are SPAs.

Is there a rule anywhere that directly states that metamagic feats cannot be used with SPAs? I've searched the core books & found nada. I also checked the other MMs & SS with the same result.

Normal metamagic uses increased spell slots as a cost for metamagic feats benefits.

SLA never have slots, so how are you going to make the monster pay the cost?

You could allow on the house some of the following:
(1) allow mm feats with +0 cost to work on SLA
(2) allow instant mm feats to be used on SLA
(3) increase "casting" time of mm-ed SLA one round per +1

Ok the last one is not that good, but the first 2 should be fine...

 

[saucercrab]

reveal,
Thanks for the link. I was so intent on the books that I forgot about the online material.

Shariell,
The feats for metamagic'ing SPAs are actually general feats, not metamagic ones.

Thanee,
CArc references this subject mostly in regards to invocations. I was looking for something more definitive & general.

Li Shenron,
Like I said, there is at least one official monster that casts its spells as if they were SPAs. That one is the phaerimm from FR. I'm trying to reconcile if its sorcerer spells are supposed to follow all the rules for SPAs. I am/was involved in a thread over on the Wizard's boards & other posters are/were of the opinion that a phaerimm follows all the rules for SPAs. Not being able to use metamagic feats would be a real downer for the evil windsocks...

 

[Muaythaidaddy]

Hhhhmmmm

I guess that's why there are feats like "Quicken Spell-Like Ability" and "Maximize Spell-Like Ability"...........

 

[Bad Paper]

Book of Vile Darkness (at least, probably also Monster Manual 2) is outdated and not useable in 3.5 (the meta-SLA feats, I mean).

MM2 has a conversion in that 3.5 update booklet 40-page pdf on the wizards site. I think that means it's still good. BoVD has basically disappeared (poor Monte), but that doesn't mean I don't still milk it for good stuff

 

[saucercrab]

I guess that's why there are feats like "Quicken Spell-Like Ability" and "Maximize Spell-Like Ability"...........

Yeah, I thought of that as well, but wanted to find something regarding [not being able to use metamagic feats with SPAs].