Metaplots - it wasn't just TSR that did them

[Umbran]

That's the whole point of the toolbox approach adopted for the nWoD, after all:

Yes, but it remains to be seen if that makes for commercial success. Haven't they canceled at least one of the lines (Mage, iirc) at this point?

 

[GrimGent]

Yes, but it remains to be seen if that makes for commercial success. Haven't they canceled at least one of the lines (Mage, iirc) at this point?

Nope. You see, every line after the Big Three (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage) was deliberately limited to only a few supplements (although Changeling then received a further extension due to its surprising popularity), and until now White Wolf has released a new one each year. Currently they are moving entirely into digital publishing: PDF, POD, that sort of thing.

 

[Dausuul]

I think there's a distinction being lost here. Having built-in, setting-wide threats and conspiracies is not metaplot; it's just setting background. Metaplot is when those threats and conspiracies evolve over successive book releases, along a path dictated by the game designers.

No single sourcebook, taken in isolation, can possibly contain metaplot. A sourcebook is a snapshot in time. By itself, whatever historical material it contains is just that, history. It only becomes metaplot when Sourcebook B's historical background is in Sourcebook A's future.

 

[GrimGent]

Having built-in, setting-wide threats and conspiracies is not metaplot; it's just setting background. Metaplot is when those threats and conspiracies evolve over successive book releases, along a path dictated by the game designers.

True. For instance, the Strix is an ancient enemy that's mentioned repeatedly in the background information of Vampire: The Requiem. However, the presence of these owl spirits would only become a matter of metaplot if at some point during the line they were to, say, destroy one of the Covenants which following supplements then would no longer consider a valid option for PCs.

 

[Jhaelen]

That sequence of events isn't right. FASA's metaplot didn't start until Shadowrun, which wasn't published until 1989. White Wolf didn't even exist as a company until 1991.

Dragonlance, in 1984, is the grand-daddy of metaplot. (There may be some inklings in that direction from Traveller, but generally the Traveller metaplot isn't seen as really existing until MegaTraveller in '87.)

Torg's player-driven metaplot (originating in 1990) also predates White Wolf, but I think between Dragonlance and the Time of Troubles, TSR can be firmly identified as the company which gave birth to metaplot.

Thanks for the info! I stand corrected then.

I don't know anything about TORG or Traveller, so I didn't know they had meta-plots, too.

I knew about Dragonlance but it's kind of a special case, imho, since the meta-plot was derived from games played by the creators of the setting, similar to how the events in the timeline of Greyhawk came to pass.

My first conscious contact with meta-plot in D&D was Dark Sun. That's probably no coincidence since I was totally excited about the setting and bought everything that had any connection to it; something I hadn't done before.

I had also invested a lot of time and effort into customizing the setting - making it mine. The release of the revised setting had a major part in what eventually killed the setting for me.

 

[eyebeams]

True. For instance, the Strix is an ancient enemy that's mentioned repeatedly in the background information of Vampire: The Requiem. However, the presence of these owl spirits would only become a matter of metaplot if at some point during the line they were to, say, destroy one of the Covenants which following supplements then would no longer consider a valid option for PCs.

It doesn't need to be that extreme. If the Strix do anything in books along a timeline contemporaneous with the default time of play, it's metaplot.

 

[eyebeams]

Yes, but it remains to be seen if that makes for commercial success. Haven't they canceled at least one of the lines (Mage, iirc) at this point?

No, they haven't cancelled Mage. One Mage book came with an ambiguous afterword because WW hadn't quite figured out how they were going to present tabletop support.

Even though I've written for the company including creating the most toolboxy things around, I dislike toolboxes. But even though I dislike them, I can't say they make or break things either way.

It is worth noting on the other hand that the most successful RPGs have metaplots except for D&D -- and D&D's most successful settings have metaplots.

 

[Umbran]

No, they haven't cancelled Mage. One Mage book came with an ambiguous afterword because WW hadn't quite figured out how they were going to present tabletop support.

I'm talking about things people involved with the company have said in my presence: that development of products beyond a certain point has been halted, and that they aren't reprinting the base Mage rules, and are looking to empty out current inventory. That sounds like cancellation to me.

Perhaps they misunderstood, I misunderstood, or I'm otherwise wrong. I cannot look up the schedule of releases, and White Wolf's website is currently tossing errors at me.

Coincidence?

Even though I've written for the company including creating the most toolboxy things around, I dislike toolboxes. But even though I dislike them, I can't say they make or break things either way.

True. Even if they did cancel the line, it isn't like one could point to the toolboxy nature as a definitive reason.

 

[Azgulor]

When I think of metaplot, I always think of White Wolf as the prime offender.

Shadowrun's a close 2nd.

Now if we're talking really bad metaplot, TSR moves up the rankings significantly. That said, 90% of the time metaplot of any kind is annoying.

 

[GrimGent]

I'm talking about things people involved with the company have said in my presence: that development of products beyond a certain point has been halted, and that they aren't reprinting the base Mage rules, and are looking to empty out current inventory. That sounds like cancellation to me.

Judging by what's been discussed on other forums, that's just part of their whole digital publishing initiative. White Wolf will be gradually abandoning printed products entirely, except through On Demand arrangements. They still have supplements scheduled for the next year, but those are all PDF-only.