Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

[greywulf]

Kensanata, I was thinking along those lines last night too. Can you write that up in the Core Rules Revised, please. Sounds good to me.

Rycanada, what you're suggesting is (in effect) that the DC for the defense roll against hits from an NPC = 10+the attack bonus. Is that right? If so, that sounds good in a defense roll based system like Rank20. As a DM, I like rolling critter's attacks so it wouldn't work for me, but I can certainly see the appeal for games where you want to put the onus on the players to roll as much as possible. That would work for solo gaming too.

 

[Wormwood]

Rycanada, what you're suggesting is (in effect) that the DC for the defense roll against hits from an NPC = 10+the attack bonus. Is that right? If so, that sounds good in a defense roll based system like Rank20. As a DM, I like rolling critter's attacks so it wouldn't work for me, but I can certainly see the appeal for games where you want to put the onus on the players to roll as much as possible. That would work for solo gaming too.

A very similar mechanic is used in Cinematic Unisystem (Buffy, Angel, etc), and I've had nothing but success running that system.

My group was burned out on d20 for a year now, moving to 'lighter' systems like Buffy. Innovations like yours will allow me to make use of my *extensive* collection of d20 adventures and settings, while maintaining the 'rules lite' feel that my group now demands.

I am very eager to test out my m20/Rank20/sadrik20(?) hybrid this week. If all goes well, I'll post a wrap-up.

Thanks guys.

 

[Ry]

Rycanada, what you're suggesting is (in effect) that the DC for the defense roll against hits from an NPC = 10+the attack bonus. Is that right?

Exactly - the Players Roll All The Dice in Rank20. Give it a try sometime - when I first expunged dice from the GM's hands I really let loose in terms of the game I ran. That was when I started spending the entire session on my feet describing stuff, because I only needed a page or two of info to keep stats straight. In a big way, Rank20 is just taking my venerable homebrew rules-light system and putting it out in d20-friendly terms.

 

[kensanata]

Done!

If enemies try to avoid a spell (touch, rays, balls of fire), add the magic attack bonus to a d20 roll. If equal or higher than your opponent’s AC, it’s a hit. If enemies have reason to resist spells affecting their mind (faulty illusions, act out-of character while charmed, sleep while charging into battle), 1d20 + magic attack bonus must be higher than 1d20 + level + MIND bonus of the opponent for the spell to take effect. If none of the above, spells always succeed.

Perhaps too wordy?

 

[greywulf]

Not too wordy, but perhaps a tad confusing

How about something like:

"Use Magical Attack as the "to Hit" roll for any spell that directly targets a foe. For spells which manifest physical damage (eg, lightning bolt) this must exceed AC to hit. Otherwise the DC = 10+opponent's MIND bonus+level. If the target is willing the spell automatically succeeds and there is no need to roll Magical Attack."

Does that work?

 

[eyebeams]

I'm not falling for a trap. Take a look at how AC works in D&D and you'll figure it out. One side rolls, the other side doesn't - they treat it as 10 (or thereabouts, who wins ties notwithstanding). I just made it that the rolling is always on the PC's side.

As I was saying, though, it doesn't matter if *both* sides apply equivalent randomness to a task. In other words if you have 1d20+bonuses PC attack vs. 10+bonuses NPC defense that's fine, as long as the NPC doesn't also have a 10 attack +bonuses attack vs. PC's 1d20+bonus defense, which skews what bonuses do with PCs compared to NPCs. It doesn't really matter whether it's for attacking or defending. It's the disparity between random and set results that skews the probabilities. At the high ranges for NPC bonuses compared to PC bonuses the differences can be pretty dramatic.

For example: A PC and NPC both attack another NPC. The NPC's defense is 20; the attackers both have +10 bonuses. The attacking NPC always hits. The PC has a 50% chance of hitting.

Next turn, the NPC who was attacked (who has multiple attacks for some reason) strikes the PC and NPC allies. The attacking NPC has a +9 attack bonus. He always misses the defending NPC, who has a static Defense of 20 (with a +10 bonus), but has a 45% chance of hitting the PC, who also has a +10 bonus.

Therefore, the PC is weaker *in fact*, even if giving NPCs a 10 superficially looks OK. His NPC partner always hits and can never be hit by the enemy.

 

[Ry]

Obviously NPC vs. NPC = GM's discretion. Roll if you want.

 

[Pilsnerquest]

Here's a link to some rules based off of UltraMicrolite20 and a bit of Simple20 called Realms of Renown.

Realms of Renown Guidelines

The rules are almost 2 pages long, the Appendix almost another 2 and the notes on some of the reasons and decisions on game mechanics 1 more page.

I'm especially interested in opinions on how this looks as a class-less and level-less game.

"The Realms of Renown, rules that let a person create a character with near limitless possibilities and GM’s to concentrate on weaving a story around these characters. You will have hours of heroic adventuring and not hours of referencing rules about grappling on a hill during a light rain."

Pilsnerquest

 

[greywulf]

I like your classless concept a lot, especially the table of "class" names. Great idea!

I suspect a magic-user in this system will need to work out his spells in advance otherwise the options for rolling 5 above, etc, will get mighty complex

Another one for me to bookmark for when I need to work on a magic system for uM20, methinks.

 

[Cymew]

Not too wordy, but perhaps a tad confusing

How about something like:

"Use Magical Attack as the "to Hit" roll for any spell that directly targets a foe. For spells which manifest physical damage (eg, lightning bolt) this must exceed AC to hit. Otherwise the DC = 10+opponent's MIND bonus+level. If the target is willing the spell automatically succeeds and there is no need to roll Magical Attack."

Does that work?

Sounds good to me.

Though, since I mainly find M20 to be an interesting but lightweight replacement for old school D&D, I'd prefer to keep the old "save for half damage" effect somehow. Maybe I'll just ditch the magic bonus, since that will keep the effect, and it uses the fewest words to achieve that effect.

I still haven't managed to scrape together some players for ToEE.