D&D 5E Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour, Nov 27 2018

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I've played hunters in WoW and to me Aragorn is still the quintessential Ranger.

What made WoW Hunters Ranger-like was their wilderness skills/traps and tracking ability that no one else got. Aragorn was the tracker in LotR. Legolas was a ranged fighter. He tracked jack squat.

So count me among those that are just fine with Beastsmastery being an option for Rangers, but hating it being part of the core class.

Tracking isn't enough to be a class, particularly in a game as high magic as D&D.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

My thought when MM talks about Martial design space Vs Caster design space.

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More or less. What's pathetic is Mearls designed Iron Heroes. But I guess he doesn't work for Fighters of the Coast.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Tracking isn't enough to be a class, particularly in a game as high magic as D&D.

I agree. rangers however should be the best at tracking, and general wilderness know-how even though i certainly would expect to the class to have more than that.

However I can't help but point out: What about fighting? Is fighting enough to be a class? Even in a game as high magic as D&D? What about a class that is dedicated to Fighting? Even without any magic? Could that work in D&D?

What about Thieving? is Thieving enough to be a class? Even in a game as high magic as D&D? What about a class that is dedicated to Thieving? Even without any magic? Could that work in D&D?

 

[BookBarbarian]

More or less. What's pathetic is Mearls designed Iron Heroes. But I guess he doesn't work for Fighters of the Coast.

Yeah, I would love some of that Iron Heroes grit in my 5e game.

 

[Parmandur]

Oh please. The paladin gets to crap out a summoned mount that's intelligent and acts independently as a 2nd level spell. Is now a good time to point out that a paladin gets about as many bonus spells always prepared from their Oath as the ranger gets to KNOW?

You could give PHB rangers both the Hunter AND the beastmaster class features, and they'd still be worse than the paladin. Rangers are pretty awful in this edition, a collection of Minor ribbons. They're even mediocre in exploration compared to the druid, trading full spellcasting for an extra bow shot a round, which barely keeps up with cantrip damage.

So, as a 2nd level spell effect, Find Steed is worth 3d10 of damage given/taken. Given the HP of a Warhorse, and the damage they are capable of in a few rounds, that seems about right for a second level spell slot. Really, they should have made Hunter's Mark a Class feature, and made Find Companion a Druid/Ranger Spell, not a subclass.

 

[Satyrn]

Yeah, I would love some of that Iron Heroes grit in my 5e game.

Some, definitely. It'd be cool to have a couple martial classes with super-fiddly mechanics like those tokens, in play beside the champion fighter.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I agree. rangers however should be the best at tracking, and general wilderness know-how even though i certainly would expect to the class to have more than that.

However I can't help but point out: What about fighting? Is fighting enough to be a class? Even in a game as high magic as D&D? What about a class that is dedicated to Fighting? Even without any magic? Could that work in D&D?

What about Thieving? is Thieving enough to be a class? Even in a game as high magic as D&D? What about a class that is dedicated to Thieving? Even without any magic? Could that work in D&D?

Quite honestly, at this point they should give up on wasting time with non-casters as they have zero desire to actually balance the game. Almost all classes are casters now, and Mearls doesnt even think non-casters should have a niche to protect. Just make everyone a full caster or hybrid, and go from there. Your typical fighter would look like more like Thor in the MCU, or something from the Bo9S. Build up charges to unleash weapon/element based attacks. Your world can still have scrubs who only fight with pointy sticks, but they aren't PC's so you don't have to balance them.

 

[generic]

Some, definitely. It'd be cool to have a couple martial classes with super-fiddly mechanics like those tokens, in play beside the champion fighter.

I would greatly enjoy a break from the parched design of martial classes that seems to have permeated every edition of D&D besides 4th.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

So, as a 2nd level spell effect, Find Steed is worth 3d10 of damage given/taken. Given the HP of a Warhorse, and the damage they are capable of in a few rounds, that seems about right for a second level spell slot. Really, they should have made Hunter's Mark a Class feature, and made Find Companion a Druid/Ranger Spell, not a subclass.

The point being, it's automatically handed out to paladins, regardless of subclass. The mount is intelligent, acts independently, can communicate telepathically within a mile, and shares spells (which the sorry BM has to wait until level 15 to do!). I think it sums up nicely how terribly the BM was designed.

 

[Parmandur]

The point being, it's automatically handed out to paladins, regardless of subclass. The mount is intelligent, acts independently, can communicate telepathically within a mile, and shares spells (which the sorry BM has to wait until level 15 to do!). I think it sums up nicely how terribly the BM was designed.

"Add your proficiency bonus to the beast's AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. Its hit point maximum equals its normal maximum or four times your ranger level, whichever is higher."

That's with no expenditure of spell slots, which if I were a Paladin I would save for Smite anyways.

The Paladin's mount has ~19 HP, and no bonuses at all, other than creature type.

The math works out, though I agree it doesn't necessarily feel the same: the design failure is in designing for people's feelings (which is important in game design), not actual mechanical balance. Hence why they are testing an even better option. The Spellcasting replacement Beast blows the Paladin Mount clear out of the water.