Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[FlyingChihuahua]

But, to look at another way, when 'compromise' about allowing things into the game comes up, yeah, I'd be happy to take the position that all caster PCs need to be purged, and we could meet in the middle somewhere. That's not real compromise, of course, it's just extremism masquerading as bargaining, but since that the attitude h4ters take with the Warlord, it'd only be fair.

So to show the "h4ters" what for you're going to...

act exactly like them?

You'll excuse me if I think that makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So to show the "h4ters" what for you're going to...

act exactly like them?

You'll excuse me if I think that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Exactly.

It is absurd to take an extreme position in response to a reasonable one, and then demand 'compromise.' Well, not absurd, exactly... but we'll go with that for the sake of amity.

Presented with such, mirroring the extreme position is illustrative, not serious.

BattleMaster would be more apt but that's already taken.

Weaponmaster is available.

It's really nothing like a Marshal, but I'd rather see 'Marshal' squandered than any other name that's been tossed out for the Warlord.

Of the 8 flavors of Warlords in 4e, this Fighter is most like a Bravura - inevitably, because the Bravura was the most fighter-like, off-tanking, of the Warlords.

 

[Azzy]

So to show the "h4ters" what for you're going to...

act exactly like them?

You'll excuse me if I think that makes absolutely no sense at all.

I think you've missed the point of Tony's posts by focusing on his sarcasm and cynicism instead.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Exactly.

Ironically being stupid and actually being stupid are the exact same thing.

I think you've missed the point of Tony's posts by focusing on his sarcasm and cynicism instead.

If someone's trying to make a point they should just say it.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think a large part depends on how you see the warlord. For battlefield control, something I think the warlord should excel at, I think this would excellently fill the warlord gap. I will note, however, that I may have a different view of the warlord since I played 4e briefly and before I heard of the popular builds.

Sure, if the name Warlord was a blank slate. Just like if rogue was a blank slate maybe we wouldn't view sneak attack as a must have mechanic for him. The point is that the Warlord isn't a blank slate and the name carries some past design decisions that at least need attempted.

As for Mearls Warlord subclass, It's look pretty good but it's looking like we were right, it's not going to be able to give healing, buffing and attack granting on a fighter chasis. Make no mistake, it's not a Warlord to us if it doesn't do those 3 things.

(I do love his healing ability overhealing). I also would love his tactical focus area as a primary subclass ability for a tactical warlord class...

 

[FrogReaver]

Exactly.

It is absurd to take an extreme position in response to a reasonable one, and then demand 'compromise.' Well, not absurd, exactly... but we'll go with that for the sake of amity.

Presented with such, mirroring the extreme position is illustrative, not serious.

Weaponmaster is available.

It's really nothing like a Marshal, but I'd rather see 'Marshal' squandered than any other name that's been tossed out for the Warlord.

Of the 8 flavors of Warlords in 4e, this Fighter is most like a Bravura - inevitably, because the Bravura was the most fighter-like, off-tanking, of the Warlords.

I'd have said he's most like the tactical Warlord. Maybe a lovechild between a bravaura and a tactical warlord?

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think you've missed the point of Tony's posts by focusing on his sarcasm and cynicism instead.

To be fair, those are the bits in sharpest focus.

If someone's trying to make a point they should just say it.

I did.

It was just too long for you to respond to, so you made something up. Which was stupid, I mean, in an ironic way. Which is totally different from actually stupid, so no offense.

It was a really long post, afterall.

Sure, if the name Warlord was a blank slate. Just like if rogue was a blank slate maybe we wouldn't view sneak attack as a must have mechanic for him.

With no D&D pre-conceptions, the Rogue would definitely need to steal other mutant's powers.

The point is that the Warlord isn't a blank slate and the name carries some past design decisions that at need attempted.
As for Mearls Warlord subclass, It's look pretty good but it's looking like we were right, it's not going to be able to give healing, buffing and attack granting on a fighter chasis. Make no mistake, it's not a Warlord to us if it doesn't do those 3 things.

Meh, the BM can do those three things. Look, I'll design a character can do those three things:

Larry the Kobold Kaptain.

*** insert Ordinary Kobold stats***

Special ability: once per day, Larry can heal an ally for 1 hp, add 1hp to an ally's attack (after seeing that it hits, so it's never wasted!), or give an ally the ability to make an extra attack as a reaction, this extra attack always inflicts a minimum - and maximum - of 1 hp of damage, if it hits.

(I do love his healing ability overhealing). I also would love his tactical focus area as a primary subclass ability for a tactical warlord class...

Over-healing becoming temps is something I recall seeing thrown out in past discussions, during the playtest, I think it may have been - definitely a while back.
Also stacking temps has been suggested.

 

[FrogReaver]

*** insert Ordinary Kobold stats***

Special ability: once per day, Larry can heal an ally for 1 hp, add 1hp to an ally's attack (after seeing that it hits, so it's never wasted!), or give an ally the ability to make an extra attack as a reaction, this extra attack always inflicts a minimum - and maximum - of 1 hp of damage, if it hits.

No idea your point here?

 

[FrogReaver]

No, actually, #2 is an implementation detail (arguably an implementation detail of #3). #1 is sufficiently generic. #3 is possibly too vague and abstract.

What kind of person is a member of this class? What does he do? What methods does he use to accomplish that?

Mike defines his warlord as (paraphrased): "A master tactician. A fighter who can see advantages on the battlefield, and take advantage of them. An intelligent fighter, who wants to make sure his allies survive the battle by fighting smarter, rather than harder." You can see how what he designed falls out from that initial premise.

What is the executive summary of what you think the warlord should be described as? Even excluding it from the Fighter subclass domain. "Granting extra attacks" is an implementation detail, not a proper design description. "Buff allies" is so vague as to be meaningless.

I think 4e summed it up pretty well:

A warrior can learn much from history, for war stains its pages. Every conflict that has erupted between peoples, every battle that forged an empire, and every failure that led to that empire’s fall prove instructive to those who study them. The warlord is a military leader, a skilled commander gifted with tactical genius, keen insight, an inspiring personality, or some other asset that convinces others to follow him or her into danger. Warlords draw from their experiences and the maneuvers and tactics used by their predecessors to dictate a battle’s terms. Their commands compel others to action. Their plans can shatter an enemy’s offensive. Even their mere words can stir hearts and ease wounds. With a warlord in charge, there’s little an adventuring group cannot do. Each warlord earns the right to command because he or she has a special talent. Tactical genius is enough for most. Others have personalities so strong they can convince others to adopt their cause. Some warlords favor brash action, while others have a knack for finding more subtle solutions to problems. Whatever form a warlord’s leadership ability takes, it improves and emboldens those who fight at his or her side

 

[Zardnaar]

I never actually saw a warlord get picked in 4E. Some had martial power classes like Barbarian and iir c every other class in the phb got picked at some point. Only saw. Maybe 3 games playedmade it to level 7 and quit.