Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[Raith5]

I have to disagree. For one thing, I don't think it's constructive to try to make a case for 5e being a strictly inferior edition that is simply unable to handle the character concepts of a prior edition, and has thus hard-failed in it's Next-playtest-proclaimed goal of being for fans of all prior editions.

But, for another, 5e is actually a very loose system. It's not that consistent, it's not that "balanced," it's not that locked-in, it has a lot of slack & wiggle-room for the DM - part of empowerment - and plenty of space for the designers..

I agree with this. I think 5e has a lot of space for different class concepts - it has the possibility of being very "modular" in allowing classes and races to be ignored and have various levels of complexity. This is evident in the way the BM has a wide range of non-magical abilities.

I have always interpreted the absence of warlord as being more about marketing and making a decisive break with the prior edition (and its real and imagined baggage), rather than any lack of capacity/bandwidth of the game or the designers.

 

[Zardnaar]

Except you can. It was done without complaint for the oh-so-cherished Wizard and their Haste spell.

It's also pretty easy maths.
The system expects that with 5 people there's, say, 5 attacks.
4 people making one attack and 1 person letting someone make an extra attack comes out to 5 attacks.

Haste got nerfed hard.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I agree with this. I think 5e has a lot of space for different class concepts - it has the possibility of being very "modular" in allowing classes and races to be ignored and have various levels of complexity. This is evident in the way the BM has a wide range of non-magical abilities.

I have always interpreted the absence of warlord as being more about marketing and making a decisive break with the prior edition, rather than any lack of capacity/bandwidth of the game or the designers.

That's a diplomatic way of putting it. The way I chose to see it was that for essentially diplomatic, post-edition war reasons, the Warlord was pointedly excluded from the PH - just like too-3e feats & MCing were made optional, but, y'know, harder.
The core of the game strongly evokes the classic game, the free pdf version evokes the old basic game, and if you add in feats & MCing, it at least drops a few crumbs to appeal to 3.5 preferences.

There are things about 4e that 5e literally can't deliver, but the Warlord class certainly isn't one of them.

 

[Yunru]

Haste got nerfed hard.

It's still a more than suitable basis to work off of.

Strip the duration and concentration, the AC boost, the speed boost and then ability to do anything other than attack with it and you've got what, a 1st level spell at most?

 

[Tony Vargas]

It's still a more than suitable basis to work off of.

'Nerfed' is relative. Haste is nerfed relative to giving multiple targets double attacks in 1e or letting you cast a second (or third) spell in one round in 3e. That's because it was broken, then, and would have been even more wildly overpowered working either of those ways in the context of 5e.

But, there's still a Haste spell, and it still makes you faster and able to attack more often.

Strip the duration and concentration, the AC boost, the speed boost and then ability to do anything other than attack with it and you've got what, a 1st level spell at most?

The BM's 'Commander's Strike' comes on line at 3rd level, the same time the EK gets first level spells, so that fits.

 

[Zardnaar]

That's a diplomatic way of putting it. The way I chose to see it was that for essentially diplomatic, post-edition war reasons, the Warlord was pointedly excluded from the PH - just like too-3e feats & MCing were made optional, but, y'know, harder.
The core of the game strongly evokes the classic game, the free pdf version evokes the old basic game, and if you add in feats & MCing, it at least drops a few crumbs to appeal to 3.5 preferences.

There are things about 4e that 5e literally can't deliver, but the Warlord class certainly isn't one of them.

5E can handle a warlord but the 4vengees won't budge on at will attack granting. Haste is nerfed to fit the 5E paradigm. The classic wizard also did not make it either.

 

[Yunru]

5E can handle a warlord but the 4vengees won't budge on at will attack granting. Haste is nerfed to fit the 5E paradigm. The classic wizard also did not make it either.

[Citation needed]

At this point it sounds more and more like flamebaiting.

 

[Zardnaar]

[Citation needed]

At this point it sounds more and more like flamebaiting.

How is it flamebaiting to point out that spells got nerfed along with attack granting which is Limited now?

 

[Yunru]

How is it fkamebaiting to point out that spells got nerfed along with attack granting which is Limited now?

Hmmm... you keep going on about "4vengers" in an insulting way and never give clarification or evidence thereof. Gee I wonder.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hmmm... you keep going on about "4vengers" in an insulting way and never give clarification or evidence thereof. Gee I wonder.

Same people that were paid up members in the WoTC forums, Tony Vargas for example. People have literally designed warlords for for them and they move the goalposts.

Or play the old citation game from the wotc forum.