Military tactics vs. high-level spellcasters

[kigmatzomat]

Part of the problem is that any defensive force with superior position, limited frontage to defend, a healthy storehouse, and a difficult to interdict supply line can hold out for months and/or years. Even in the face of cannons during the 16th century large fortresses could survive sieges for extended periods of time.

However, a siege can be a successful campaign without destroying the target. If you can keep the trainers cooped up and demoralize those that would act against you, did you fail?

BTW my favorite anti-mage weapon is an arrow with antimagic cast on it and smeared with Id Moss poison. Best used on a flying wizard.

 

[Pielorinho]

BTW my favorite anti-mage weapon is an arrow with antimagic cast on it and smeared with Id Moss poison. Best used on a flying wizard.

You can't cast antimagic on an object, can you?

Given the new circumstances, as the commander, I'd get my high-level mages to set up a teleportation circle about a half mile away from the castle. Clear the ground in a "runway" near the end of the circle, and have your troops run through it. Since the circle will be 10' across, and a character can run 240' in a normal round, you can get 96 soldiers through the circle every round; it'll take about ten minutes to move an army of ten thousand into position.

Get a druid to cast earthquake on the castle as soon as troops start coming through. [Edit: apparently earthquake doesn't damage reinforced masonry. It may still be useful to sow chaos and to destroy any wooden structures within the compound, but it may be unnecessary). Have your wizards stand by to counterspell. If the earthquake fails to open a breach in the castle walls, use disintegrate to open that breach (and have more disintegrates prepared to get rid of walls of force or stone put up to block the breach).

The druids should be ready to summon air elementals and then to cast faerie fire on any invisible wizards. The air elementals will whirlwind, picking up enemy wizards and depositing them next to teams of crack wizard-killer troops.

Your army of ten thousand should be kept in the dark about this procedure until the very last minute. They should train pouring through a small gap in a wall, with the understanding that this is how they will be entering the wizard's keep; they'll actually be using this procedure to get through the teleportation circle as quickly as possible.

The teleportation circle's entrance should probably be about 200 miles or so from the wizard's castle. That way, the wizards will be ready for an army to come to them, but they'll think they've got a week or two to prepare when the actual attack comes.

Daniel

 

[Slife]

Not really. The wizards sleep in shifts under the area of silence spells. Or use rope trick. I don't think the "wizards running out of spells" option is a tactic you want to rely on!

One thing which might make a difference, too, is clerical or druidic magic. As rangerwickett has presented it, it sounds like they're all arcane casters, but with a couple of divine casters, the situation gets much worse for the attackers. The defenders sudddenly have an infinite supply of fresh food and pure water, for example.

The wizards already can get unlimited food and water

Anyway, the easiest way to destroy the wizards is by sending them a Deck of Many Things as a peace offering.

 

[Pielorinho]

If you've got a level 13 druid, they've got Control Weather. You could use this in a couple of ways. First, you could use it to create windstorms that prevent flying (but also prevent missile fire--probably a worthwhile tradeoff). Second, you could use it to create fog or rain that blocks line of sight (which may or may not be worthwhile, given the wizards' use of area spells).

Control Winds is another fantastic druid spell: if those flyers are irritating you, get up close to them and create a tremendous downdraft that hammers them into the earth. Since you can change the wind each round, it's very effective.

Finally, Wind Walking a collection of high-level folks into the compound during the confusion of the assault can be very helpful. If you're dressed appropriately, th enemy is likely not to notice you, and you might be able to cause some serious damage from the inside before they know that you're there. The castle is likely to have wards against teleportation, but much less likely to be warded against windwalkers.

Daniel

 

[Hussar]

I mentioned this in one of the other threads.

Use the Mob template for your army. Now your groups of 48 troops have 120 hp and 30 HD. That pretty much negates most of the area of effect spells. They just can't do enough damage to drop the mob.

 

[Veril]

10,000 4th level fighters vs 20 9-15th lvl spell casters is a scenario for total defeat for the fighters. IMO they have no chance of success.

People have focused on the standard mass Fireball to take out the troops, this is a very simplistic scenario and well, wizards can do much much better.
A simplistic but effective technique: Use Widen to increase the size of the fireball. You get four times the area for a spell level.

My Projected image walks into the arms and uses Cone of code. 60' long cone. that's a lot more than a fireball area.

How about using Control Weather to create some natural fog where the armsy is. Then seeding that with Acid Fog spells or Cloudkill spells. Empower, Extend or Widen the harmful "foggy" spells for extra evilness.

How about a nice wall of fire... That's massivly destructive.

How about the Summon6 and 7 spells, they get really nasty. And a summons does not break invisibility.

If I though the army was about to break into my castle through a large gap...

A Prismatic Wall spell. Then an illusion over the top of it to conceal it (someone concentatest on it). Then let the army charge in through the wall. Drop walls of fire behind.

 

[Solarious]

Ninjas are a tough sell when you've got Erinyes at your beck and call. Consistant True Seeing and a Charm Monster later, you've got your own supply of ULTIMATE POWER who want to pay YOU a visit. Alternatively, you'll have Succubus patrolling etherally, and their Charm Monsters are even harder to resist.

Sorry, ninjas don't exactly solve this particular problem, as much as we would love it to.

Druidic support does even things up a lot, but then two seperate spell lists competing against each other messes things up so spectacularly, I don't want to touch it. However, I still say the Wizards have the advantage, with a month to prepare and throw up defences/cast divination spells/render your army into their own undead servents.

 

[zen_hydra]

The wizards will be impossible to beat in their fortress, and as long as they determine (and control) the battlefield. The only stratagy that makes sense to me is to draw the wizards out and into an ambush. I think that Glen Cook's Black Company series did a good job of demonstaiting what sort of tactics work against high powered spellcasters. A high level caster has a tendancy to become overly sure of their own capabilities, especially after they easily nuke a company of soldiers (or two). The trick is finding a way to lure the casters away from their stronghold, and into an area that you control. Any number of traps (devices, poisons, alchemical substances, etc...) can be used to overcome a wizards defenses. The keys to a successful ambush against a powerful wizard are proper planning, and overwhelming force.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Use the Mob template for your army. Now your groups of 48 troops have 120 hp and 30 HD. That pretty much negates most of the area of effect spells. They just can't do enough damage to drop the mob.

That sounds like a problem with the mob template concept rather than an intelligent tactic.

Fireball has ALWAYS been good at killing mobs, because it does the full damage to each individual creature within its area. Fireball has been tremendously nerfed first by 2e (increasing HP for dragons and giants) and now by 3e (Con bonuses for monsters and higher Con bonuses for 12-16 Con), while the spell damage stayed at 1d6/level. To add yet another nerf... why?

 

[drothgery]

The wizards will be impossible to beat in their fortress, and as long as they determine (and control) the battlefield. The only stratagy that makes sense to me is to draw the wizards out and into an ambush. I think that Glen Cook's Black Company series did a good job of demonstaiting what sort of tactics work against high powered spellcasters.

No, they did a good job of demonstrating what tactics work against high powered spellcasters in the Black Company universe. Where magic works quite differently than it does in worlds where D&D mechanics apply; if a tenth-level D&D wizard went up against any of the Ten Who Were Taken, my money would be on the D&D wizard. Moreover, it's worth noting that the basic Company tactic for dealing with a major spellcaster in a well defended fortress is to trick them into leaving said fortress.