Minions are immune to non-targeted effect damage? Is this right???

[N0Man]

I saw this thread, Minion Question on the WotC forums that said:

From CustServ: "As for minions, minions have to be hit with an attack that deals damage to be killed - they can't be killed as part of an effect of something."

Now, I've never played it like this, and have never heard such a thing before. I tried finding a second source to back this up, and I can't find anything from the PHB, MM, DMG, or even Google!

Has anyone else ever heard of this? I'd have a tough time buying this, considering many secondary effects seemed to be intentionally designed to help take out minions, given how much these types of effects are given to Controllers (who are the real Minion slayers of 4E).

 

[keterys]

It's a viable house rule (although it has a couple problems), but it's definitely an incorrect CS response (or a made up one)

 

[ValhallaGH]

it's definitely an incorrect CS response (or a made up one)

Or a lazy one.

Or a really badly worded one.

Regardless, that ain't how the rules say they work.

 

[DracoSuave]

Here's the sum total of rules on minions re: damage: (MM2, Most Recent)

minion: A minion is destroyed when it takes any damage. If a minion is missed by an attack that deals damage on a miss, the minion doesn't take that damage.


Continuing further, from Monster Manual 1.

A minion is destroyed when it takes any amount of damage. Damage from an attack or from a source that doesn’t require an attack roll (such as the paladin’s divine challenge or the fighter’s cleave) also destroys a minion. However, if a minion is missed by an attack that normally deals damage on a miss, it takes no damage.


Monster Manual 2 does not contradict Monster Manual 1, so Monster Manual 1's rule is still applicable.

So the rules flat out state, yes, you do deal that damage.

And, a quick scan of the updates shows that minions have not been errata'd either.


One thing to be aware of, however, is some effects have themselves been errata'd so that they no longer interract with minions. Rod of Corruption, for example.

So, you sometimes have to look up the individual effect in the errata to be certain.

 

[N0Man]

It seemed that this was specifically in regards to the power Winter's Grip.

I don't know if this was a made up response, misquote, a bad call from CSR, or what. I think I'm with the rest of you though that this is wrong. I couldn't find anything to suggest that it was correct, but wanted it to run it by others just to make sure there isn't some rule I'm overlooking or a source I'm unaware of.

If I were the DM, I'd be inclined to ignore it even if they were correct.

Thanks for the reassurance. ;-)

 

[Greatwyrm]

They've told us from the beginning that specific rules trump general rules. The only specific rule I've seen on minions is no damage on a miss. Nothing about wandering through zones, delayed ongoing damage, or any of the zillion other things that can do one point of damage to a minion. Just no damage on a miss.

I mean, if you used the strict interpretation given here, a minion could survive a fall from any height, couldn't drown, and would suffer no ill effects from standing on lava. None of those require an attack roll, after all.

 

[Derulbaskul]

When I saw the thread title my first thought was to open the thread and type in a reply along the lines of, "I think you're misinterpreting what it means when it says that a minion does not take damage on a miss. But contact CustServ: if they agree with your interpretation then you know you are wrong."

You can imagine how much I laughed when I realised you were already relying on a wrong answer from CustServ.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah. It is not that minions can only be killed with a successful attack, but that minions can not be killed from a missed attack.

Anything that just deals damage without any attack roll involved, kills them just fine.

Bye
Thanee

 

[lukelightning]

On a side note, minions are like the characters in the Final Destination movies. Sure, a strange twist of fate enables them to avoid getting killed by the fireball/blade storm/irate ranger — but sooner or later (probably sooner) death is going to claim them.

 

[Somebloke]

Yes, but minions are generally far more likeable.

I once threw 80 2nd level minions against my 4th level party. They (the party) had a wonderful time, especially the wizard and his onoging aoe spells.