Miracle and Turning attempts

[htetickrt]

Hello all,

I've been away for a bit (from both the game and the boards) but my group and I finally got back to playing again and we stopped at a question about which I was hoping someone here had an opinion.

The group's cleric (18th level) wants to recover her used turning attempts (max 10) via a miracle to accomplish a plot-related objective. My questions are: Should I allow this? How many do I let her recover (she has 0 now)? and What should the cost be, if any?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,
htetickrt

 

[Artoomis]

How many are truly needed, and for what?

This is a most unusual request. You can allow it, of course, but it probably should cost the 5,000 exp pts for "an especially powerful request."

You might consider that the miracle perhaps should give something more closely related to quest completion. I would't know what that might be, though.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Basically, the guideline in the spell description is that if the miracle is equivalent to about an eighth-level spell then it wouldn't cost any XP. Is regaining 10 turn attempts equivalent to an 8th-level spell? The answer to that is highly campaign dependent. What feats do you allow (e.g. divine metamagic or other turn-related feats)? Is it highly undead-centric? IMC, it would be a reasonable request and I would not require any XP.

 

[htetickrt]

Thanks for the advice!

I don't want to say too much as it relates to a published module (that everyone who wants to has likely finished already, but still) but my estimation is that it would require between 6 and 8 turning attempts to accomplish the goal. This is the only listed way to accomplish the goal and, while I could just say the miracle directly accomplishes it, that would contravene a more powerful spell of a more powerful caster that created the goal in the first place, so I'd rather not.

The characters did figure out how to accomplish the goal on their own; it was just that the cleric burned all of her turning on divine metamagic earlier in the day.

Cheers,
htetickrt

 

[htetickrt]

Basically, the guideline in the spell description is that if the miracle is equivalent to about an eighth-level spell then it wouldn't cost any XP. Is regaining 10 turn attempts equivalent to an 8th-level spell? The answer to that is highly campaign dependent. What feats do you allow (e.g. divine metamagic or other turn-related feats)? Is it highly undead-centric? IMC, it would be a reasonable request and I would not require any XP.

I do allow, at least at the moment, divine metamagic, and the cleric has the quicken variety. This particular adventure is highly undead-centric too, but no one has been turning them directly.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I do allow, at least at the moment, divine metamagic, and the cleric has the quicken variety. This particular adventure is highly undead-centric too, but no one has been turning them directly.

That's probably because (IMO) turning undead as written in the rules sucks as a tactic. Forcing undead to flee is not always a good option. Having a house rule on turning would solve that problem, but then possibly make allowing miracle to revive turn attempts a trifle more powerful (obviously).

Now, as far as the divine metamagic, I don't have an answer for you, unless you've also adopted the suitable house rule similar to the incantatrix (no metamagic above a spell level you could cast). Perhaps you could then just say that those turn attempts cannot be used for spells or perhaps only for one spell (and the remaining turns cannot be used for spells until they would have normally replenished).

 

[JoelF]

Is there some time pressure to accomplish the goal ASAP? If not, then can't the high level party simply rest for a day and come back the next day with all turning attempts restored from the night of rest? If there is some reason that the turning attempts need to be used quickly, then the miracle could essentially plane shift the party to a plane with a slower rate of time, let them rest there and then with a full set of prepared spells, they're only a plane shift and greater teleport away from where they started. That doesn't really seem too powerful for a miracle.

Another way that the miracle could indirectly accomplish the goal is to have it gate in some powerful creature which has cleric levels (and thus turning attempts) and have the cleric bargain for the gated creature to make the turning attempts for the party.

 

[Artoomis]

Is there some time pressure to accomplish the goal ASAP? If not, then can't the high level party simply rest for a day and come back the next day with all turning attempts restored from the night of rest? If there is some reason that the turning attempts need to be used quickly, then the miracle could essentially plane shift the party to a plane with a slower rate of time, let them rest there and then with a full set of prepared spells, they're only a plane shift and greater teleport away from where they started. That doesn't really seem too powerful for a miracle.

Another way that the miracle could indirectly accomplish the goal is to have it gate in some powerful creature which has cleric levels (and thus turning attempts) and have the cleric bargain for the gated creature to make the turning attempts for the party.

I LIKE IT!! Nice approach.

 

[Quartz]

What is the personality of the deity, and for what exactly does the requesting cleric require the turning attempts?

If the deity hates undead and the cleric has been using his Turn Undead usage on metamagicking spells then a nice fat thunderbolt would be in order for wasting the divine gift. Or, to teach him a lesson, grant the Miracle, but each Turn Undead incurs one negative level.

 

[Pyrex]

I would allow the Miracle to infuse the Cleric with sufficient holy energy to activate the required McGuffin with no hesitation.

In general use I would probably allow Miracle to directly restore turn attempts, but I'm not sure how many.