mirror image with displacement?

[lottrbacchus]

hello,

so we are having a discussion right now, would displacement work on ones mirror images thus making them have a 50% miss chance, not cloak of displacement but the spell? its hard to say from the desct of the spells, thx

 

[Fifth Element]

hello,

so we are having a discussion right now, would displacement work on ones mirror images thus making them have a 50% miss chance, not cloak of displacement but the spell? its hard to say from the desct of the spells, thx

That's an interesting question. Mirror image makes reference to the fact that opponents cannot distinguish between you and the images. They imitate your movements, etc.

But displacement makes you (the subject) appear to be 2 feet from your actual location. Since the creature touched is the subject, not any images of the subject, and since the images from mirror image arguably don't have an "actual" position (since they're not real), I would say that the images would not gain the benefit of displacement.

This is just my interpretation, of course.

 

[frankthedm]

Isay the image is 'displaced', moving over to the side. However it still is popped on being struck.

 

[blargney the second]

*braces for impact*
-blarg

(the last thread on this topic was... divisive.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

The FAQ states the the Mirror Images gain the benefit of any spells that rely on a visual nature, or words to that effect, and gives Blur and Displacement as examples.

I can see to an extent where it's coming from, and I'm not sure if I agree or not - the FAQ says some other weird stuff about Mirror Image that I definitely disagree with.

If you cast Disguise Self and make yourself look like an orc, the figments should all look like orcs as well.

If you cast Blur, and get a blurry outline, the figment should all get blurry outlines as well. The question is whether having a blurry outline is sufficient to grant concealment, or whether having a blurry outline because you are the target of Blur is what's required.

In similar fashion, should the figments gain the +10 Disguise bonus for looking like orcs? After all, they look just like you, and you get it... it would be odd if people looking at you all said "Well, they all look identical, but that one looks like an orc, and those ones somehow don't".

So it seems to me that despite not being the target of Disguise Self, the figments gain the mechanical bonus due to the visual nature of the spell. So should the same not apply to Blur?

If we look at the 'fluffy' explanation of Blur, there's a 20% chance that, due to the blurred outline, when someone thinks they're hitting you, they're actually hitting not-you - the blurry space where you appear to be but aren't. So if the images have blurred outlines, it's conceivable to apply the same explanation - someone thinks they're hitting image, but they're actually hitting not-image.

If we rule that Displacement also has its visual effect on the figments, it should also by the same logic have its mechanical effect - the figment is actually here, and despite only being an image, the fact that it looks like it's there doesn't change that it's here... so if someone swings there, directly through the apparent displaced position, the figment is not struck and does not vanish. But only if we rule that Displacement has a visual effect on figments. And I'm not convinced we should - unlike Disguise Self, or Faerie Fire, or Blur, Displacement doesn't actually alter the appearance of the target, and since it doesn't even shift your apparent location by 5 feet, it doesn't cause any major issues with distinguishing you from figments - who can exist in a cluster larger than that already.

My personal inclination, therefore, is to rule that Disguise Self and Blur would affect figments mechanically the same way they affect the primary, but that Displacement would not.

-Hyp.

 

[ceratitis]

should it affect the chance of hitting you vs one of the figments? after all you get the 50% miss and they dont so do you count yourself as two figures for the calculation of chance of getting hit?

 

[blargney the second]

Personally, I'd run it like this:
1) Determine whether attack targets the caster or an image.
2) If it's the caster he has to hit through the 50% miss chance.
3) If it's an image, it pops. (ie no benefit of displacement)

I suspect 1 & 2 are the same for most people - it's #3 that's more open to interpretation.

 

[ceratitis]

Personally, I'd run it like this:
1) Determine whether attack targets the caster or an image.
2) If it's the caster he has to hit through the 50% miss chance.
3) If it's an image, it pops. (ie no benefit of displacement)

I suspect 1 & 2 are the same for most people - it's #3 that's more open to interpretation.

i agree and its how i'd run it too. my question was: now that the caster is affected by the 50% miss chance does it also affect your "stage 1" of determining wether the attack targets the caster or an image? logically, i'm not sure. instinct says yes but something in my gut says no. from a mathematical pont of view i'm no good at number crunching but i'd say it has an effect.