Mirror Image

[Magus Coeruleus]

Hi gang,

I've seen at least one long, drawn-out thread on Mirror Image, which is ambiguous or at least difficult to adjudicate in terms of distribution, control over images, yadda yadda yadda. I'm hoping not to provoke a newed argument, but was wondering if there's been any official clarification or ruling I can look at. For flavor purposes, a certain evil wizard opponent really should be using this spell, but I've shied away from it because it looks like such a pain in the donkey to deal with.

Thanks

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Another related question: Any successful attack roll against a mirror image figment destroys it. That much is clear. What happens if you target a figment with a non-area spell (i.e. targets only one creature) that requires no attack roll but does require a saving throw? Do you just roll randomly? If you had a spell that could launch multiple such attacks in one round, would you be forced to then take random rolls, or could you specifically target each image (one of which is real) to try and destroy them? If you can do this, what happens to the saving throw?

Thanks,

 

[dcollins]

No official clarification on the distribution/control issue.

No official clarification specific to a targetted no-attack-roll-save-required spells. (But there's a FAQ entry about targetted spells re: magic missile you may want to read.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the PHB, a targetted spell with no attack roll doesn't destroy an image.

By the FAQ, any targetted spell destroys an image.

Saving throws don't come into it.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

By the FAQ, any targetted spell destroys an image.

Note that Hypersmurf is the only person who holds that interpretation. By context, the targetted spell must cause some sort of damage.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Ok, so mirror image IS brought up in the FAQ after all (I searched for "mirror image" but the two words are on diffferent lines and for some reason the PDF text gets selected (and is presumably searched) line by line spanning BOTH columns, so you can't find "mirror image."

Do you both agree, then, that according to the FAQ a spell with the following characteristics will destroy figments?

• targets one or more creatures (not an area effect)
• does not require an attack roll but offers a saving throw
• does hp damage

Hyp, are you saying that under these circumstances no saving throw applies, and the figment is automatically destroyed by being targeted? If so, what is the basis for your thinking that the save does not apply?

Thanks!

 

[maybeso]

Note that Hypersmurf is the only person who holds that interpretation. By context, the targetted spell must cause some sort of damage.

While I agree that using "sending" to kill "mirror image" is stupid, I have to agree with Hypersmurf that it fits what the FAQ says:
(quote from MainFAQv040403.pdf)
Area spells don’t destroy the figments created by the mirror
image spell, but targeted spells do. To determine if a spell is
“targeted,” look at the information that proceeds each spell
description. If there is a Target or Targets entry, the spell is
targeted. A spell also is “targeted” if it has an Effect entry and
the effect is a ray or something else that requires a melee or
ranged attack to strike a foe, such as the missile created by the
Melf’s acid arrow spell or the beam of fire from a flame blade
spell.
(bolding mine)

Oh well, maybe they will fix that with 3.5.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you both agree, then, that according to the FAQ a spell with the following characteristics will destroy figments?

• targets one or more creatures (not an area effect)
• does not require an attack roll but offers a saving throw
• does hp damage

According to the FAQ, yes, one of those spells will destroy a figment.

The saving throw is irrelevant, and by my reading (though dcollins disagrees, as do several others ), the damage is irrelevant as well.

(By the way - excepting a target with Improved Evasion, there are no spells in the PHB that have a Target entry, no attack roll, and a Save Negates vs hit point damage.)

-Hyp.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

(By the way - excepting a target with Improved Evasion, there are no spells in the PHB that have a Target entry, no attack roll, and a Save Negates vs hit point damage.)

-Hyp.

Correct. I didn't want to obfuscate the issue with unnecessary info, but we use a houseruled version of Magic Missile, since I don't like 1st level spells that automatically hit (no attack roll, no saving throw) and scale up nicely with level. This version does 1d8 damage per missile, but allows a Reflex save to dodge each one (to avoid it completely), although anything other than total cover or concealment provides no miss chance or Reflex save bonus. Given the higher damage, this makes it still an attractive 1st level spell (the wizard's player seems to be okay with it, anyway), without having it trump higher levels spells since as opponents get tougher with increasing PC levels, Reflex saves improve.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you look at how the figments' AC is determined, it's 10 + size modifier + Dex modifier.

Dodge bonuses, insight bonuses, class abilities, etc, don't figure into it. Just the flat Dex modifier.

So I would say if you're going to give a figment a Reflex save, it should be just the Dex modifier. No level-based base Reflex save, no Lightning Reflexes, no Luck bonuses etc to saving throws.

But honestly, the easiest thing to do is assume that whoever wrote the FAQ entry was drunk at the time, and just use the PHB. No attack roll, no vanishing figments.

-Hyp.