Misdirected Mark and Defenders

[Obryn]

So, the Bard's various "marked by an ally of your choice" powers create some new questions for Defenders. I've been looking through the various Defenders, and here's what I've come up with to answer the question, "Which Defender powers and features work with Misdirected Mark?"

FIGHTER: The Fighter's Combat Challenge is pretty clear. It doesn't seem to matter how someone was marked - if an enemy marked by the fighter is adjacent to the fighter, the fighter can make their Immediate attacks for shifting or making attacks on others.

SWORDMAGE: Swordmages are a little more limited. The Aegis wording refers to the ability's "target." As such, as I read it, the Aegis can't be used against a target marked to the swordmage by Misdirected Mark.

PALADIN: Much like the Swordmage, the Paladin's Divine Challenge refers to the "target."

WARDEN: Warden's Fury and Warden's Grasp, like the Fighter's abilities, only require that the target is "marked by [them]" without respect to how that target was marked. So it looks like a misdirected mark will work perfectly well for these features - which could be especially useful for Warden's Grasp.

... and that's about what I got.

So, by my reading, Bards synchronize better with Fighters and Wardens than they do with Swordmages or Paladins.

Am I missing something?

-O

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

No, I think that covers it pretty clearly. It's good to know and think about, but I don't know that there's much to discuss.

 

[sfedi]

You're totally right.

I noticed the same and I wondered if it was on purpose or some other "glitch".

I´m still suspicious, though.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, I don't think it's suspicious ... since fighters and wardens are supposed to be able to mark many foes at once ..
Whilst paladins and swordmages one at a time. Usually. PPs don't count.

 

[Nightson]

Paladin and Fighter use identical language.

"While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target." ~Paladin

"While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target." ~Fighter

Swordmage is slightly different

"If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls." ~Swordmage

There's nothing here that says Misdirected Mark doesn't work. There's nothing here that says Misdirected Mark works but it doesn't need to because Misdirected Mark says that it works.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Paladin and Fighter use identical language.

"While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target." ~Paladin

"While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target." ~Fighter

Swordmage is slightly different

"If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls." ~Swordmage

There's nothing here that says Misdirected Mark doesn't work. There's nothing here that says Misdirected Mark works but it doesn't need to because Misdirected Mark says that it works.

Its not about whether or not the marked condition applies, its whether or not combat challenge, divine challenge, etc. work with a mark applied by means other than a use of the divine challenge power, or a mark made by the fighters themselves.

 

[Obryn]

First, whew! Glad I'm with the consensus. Second...

Paladin and Fighter use identical language.

"While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target." ~Paladin

"While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target." ~Fighter

That's a pretty selective quoting. That's just describing the results of the Marked condition itself. What's different is the language surrounding the defender "whammy".

For the Fighter and Warden, it's clear that any marked enemy can trigger his whammy. They're not referred to as "targets" for this purpose.

In addition, whenever an enemy marked by you is adjacent to you and shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.

For the Paladin, the language refers specifically to the power's target for its effects, not to any marked enemy. Ditto, the Swordmage.

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn. The
damage increases to 6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th level, and to 9 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.

I mean, naturally the opponent is still marked by the Defender and gets a -2 to attack anyone else. But the defender whammies don't get to come into play for Paladins and Swordmages as a result of the misdirected mark, as I'm reading the text.

-O

 

[RefinedBean]

Now, misdirected mark in conjunction with an Avenger, that'd be interesting to see. Might be an easy way to get Censure of Retribution going fairly reliably, until the enemies wisen up.

 

[WalterKovacs]

There is also the Rakish Swashbuckler as a non-defender character that cares about marking. Having a bard buddy for the rogue/rakish swashbuckler can help in either direction.

 

[Nightson]

Its not about whether or not the marked condition applies, its whether or not combat challenge, divine challenge, etc. work with a mark applied by means other than a use of the divine challenge power, or a mark made by the fighters themselves.

Using this logic, the Paladin can't use Divine Challenge on enemies he marks with Piercing Strike.

This is just silly. Nothing in either ability says that the marks effects only come into play if the mark was placed there by a specific power. Once a target is marked, it's just marked. It's not marked and not marked, it's not some weird half mark, it's just marked.