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mixing manufactured and natural weapons
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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 2446227" data-attributes="member: 23094"><p>Er, no. When using a manufactured weapon, all natural attacks are treated as secondary (-5 penalty to attacks, only apply .5 Strength mod to damage), even if they would normally be primary natural weapons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. You may apply Haste to your natural weapon (assuming that the Haste spell actually allows for that! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ), but doing so still requires the -5 penalty for being a secondary natural weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>First, your claws are treated as secondary natural weapons <strong>because you're using an axe, as well</strong>.</p><p></p><p>You have the following weapons available:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Axe</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 Claws (usually Primary)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 Tentacles (usually Primary)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 Wings (always Secondary)</li> </ul><p></p><p>So, a non-hasted full attack using every weapon available to you would look like:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Axe +5</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 Claws (Secondary) +0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 Tentacles (Secondary) +0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2 Wings (Secondary) +0</li> </ul><p></p><p>Or, to use your notation:</p><p></p><p>Axe +5 / Claw +0 / Claw +0 / Tentacle +0 / Tentacle +0 / Wing +0 / Wing +0</p><p></p><p>If you are hasted, you gain one additional attack. You may therefore add any one of the following:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Axe +5</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Claw (Secondary) +0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tentacle (Secondary) +0</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wing (Secondary) +0</li> </ul><p></p><p>EDIT:</p><p></p><p>The reason I disagree with Starglim as regards the Arms of Plenty spell is the following text:</p><p></p><p>"Since the claws are primary attacks, you can attack with them in addition to making your weapon attacks without penalty..."</p><p></p><p>This is a bit of rules text that is absolutely meaningless. It claims that <strong>because</strong> the claws are primary natural weapons, they have a particular trait (in this case, they can be mixed with weapon attacks without penalty). That is not a trait of primary natural weapons, and therefore the sentence does not make sense.</p><p></p><p>It's akin to me saying, "Since I'm a man, I drive a car." The one does not flow from the other.</p><p></p><p>If, instead, the spell had said, "The claw attacks provided by this spell are always treated as primary natural weapons, even when used in conjunction with a manufactured weapon," then we wouldn't be having this additional discussion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 2446227, member: 23094"] Er, no. When using a manufactured weapon, all natural attacks are treated as secondary (-5 penalty to attacks, only apply .5 Strength mod to damage), even if they would normally be primary natural weapons. No. You may apply Haste to your natural weapon (assuming that the Haste spell actually allows for that! ;) ), but doing so still requires the -5 penalty for being a secondary natural weapon. First, your claws are treated as secondary natural weapons [b]because you're using an axe, as well[/b]. You have the following weapons available: [list] [*]Axe [*]2 Claws (usually Primary) [*]2 Tentacles (usually Primary) [*]2 Wings (always Secondary) [/list] So, a non-hasted full attack using every weapon available to you would look like: [list] [*]Axe +5 [*]2 Claws (Secondary) +0 [*]2 Tentacles (Secondary) +0 [*]2 Wings (Secondary) +0 [/list] Or, to use your notation: Axe +5 / Claw +0 / Claw +0 / Tentacle +0 / Tentacle +0 / Wing +0 / Wing +0 If you are hasted, you gain one additional attack. You may therefore add any one of the following: [list] [*]Axe +5 [*]Claw (Secondary) +0 [*]Tentacle (Secondary) +0 [*]Wing (Secondary) +0 [/list] EDIT: The reason I disagree with Starglim as regards the Arms of Plenty spell is the following text: "Since the claws are primary attacks, you can attack with them in addition to making your weapon attacks without penalty..." This is a bit of rules text that is absolutely meaningless. It claims that [b]because[/b] the claws are primary natural weapons, they have a particular trait (in this case, they can be mixed with weapon attacks without penalty). That is not a trait of primary natural weapons, and therefore the sentence does not make sense. It's akin to me saying, "Since I'm a man, I drive a car." The one does not flow from the other. If, instead, the spell had said, "The claw attacks provided by this spell are always treated as primary natural weapons, even when used in conjunction with a manufactured weapon," then we wouldn't be having this additional discussion. [/QUOTE]
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