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MM excerpt: phane

webrunner

First Post
Here's a question: Isn't one of the things about 4e design is that there's more than one type of each monster, because they're starting every monster at the top of a page?

Maybe there's a Phane Timeripper 27 Solo Controller that can do the time-duplicate thing (or even cooler, time duplicates of OTHER characters, like ancient kings and the adventurers' possible future offspring)
 

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Kunimatyu

First Post
Honestly, the time duplicate thing is best handled in flavor text, which could describe how to make simple minion duplicates out of the PCs or prominent NPCs, or more likely, what pages to flip to in the DMG to do so. Duplication on the fly is a little much.
 


That One Guy

First Post
So, first...

Kunimatyu said:
An insubstantial (takes 1/2 damage from attacks) creature with 478 hit points, that can hit PCs with rays that cause them to halve their damage, so it's only taking 1/4 normal damage? Nasty!

Can someone link me to where that's confirmed? ...or give an example of how they know? Thanks!

Second, Fallen Seraph's description of the phane is pretty sweet.

Lastly, as I was reading through everyone's comments, all I could think of was that it feels like WOTC is giving a basic idea for the monster, but the dms can expand on it giving it powers and fluff. I thought of something that I personally like and may use. A phane who has periodically appeared during combat and fought the PCs. They think it's stalking them or just attacking with random cruelty. However, it's trying to jump back in time to when they're weaker to see if it can give them a serious enough injury to win a fight in the present... which is the future of the ambushed PCs. Then, once the PCs actually meet it they'll be afraid of it and a pretty cool thing could be 'recalling' wounds as a minor action or something. Also, I think it would have to be able to get a usable action point for any and all action points the PCs used in fighting it... thus it could really break time and be super nasty.
 

Benimoto

First Post
That One Guy said:
Can someone link me to where that's confirmed? ...or give an example of how they know? Thanks!
As far as I know, there's nothing official, but in the D & D Miniatures line, being Insubstantial causes a creature to take half damage from attacks, and being weakened causes a creature to deal half damage.
 

occam

Adventurer
Hussar said:
The problem with summoning mirror shades to fight the party is that the prep work required for that is substantial. It's just too long.

Not if you do it using the level adjustment rules for monsters just revealed from the DMG. -2 to attacks, AC, and defenses, -1 to damage, -2 levels of hp, and go!
 

GoodKingJayIII

First Post
So has anyone tried to build the Phane with the custom monsters thread. The rules don't seem to match up (which isn't completely strange, as customizing a monster is not necessarily the same as building one). But I've probably missed some other preview hints and things that might shed light on my questions. For instance: the Phane has an attack bonus of +29. Based on the customizing article, we know that +26 could account for level. Based on the Shadar-Kai article from Roll v. Role we know that it gets another +2 to attack for being elite, for a total of +28. So where's that +1 coming from? It doesn't seem to be related to its ability scores. So I'm a bit confused.

Also, how do we know what ability score its attacks key from? Maybe more importantly, does it really matter?

Finally, I really don't understand the inclusion of ability scores and their bonuses. I know the formula for calculating them (3.x bonus +1/2 level, correct?), but they don't seem to factor into the statblock, except for a few skills and perhaps for ability checks when necessary.
 

Fallen Seraph

First Post
That One Guy said:
Second, Fallen Seraph's description of the phane is pretty sweet.

Thanks, I think it shows that even though the stat-blocks and powers may seem basic and as others put it "less-epic" they only are like that on-paper. It is sorta a reverse of 3e, instead of looking better on paper then in play, it looks better in play then on paper.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
But there's no way to keep those abilities and still keep to the 4e philosophy on monster design and balance.

Ha!

I mean alternate cowboy dimension duplicates require you to have stated out versions of the PCs or alternate versions of them at least.

"Your evil twin attacks you. Eddie, roll to attack yourself at -2."

As a DM, I should have a vague idea of what powers my PC's have anyway, and even if I don't remember specifics, it's right there on their character sheet, and THEY have the specifics, so it's no more effort than telling them what the twin does, and letting them figure out what numbers to figure in. It's less DM prep work than most other monsters. ;)

That means you need access to their character sheets in order to apply a template or modifications to them. They might take those home with them. Either that or it requires you ask the players what their AC or attacks or damage is each round of combat. Plus...that PC has 20 different powers you could use, each of which has a paragraph of text describing it. How do they all work? Which is the best one to use this round? How many of them are Immediate actions? It's easy for the player to keep track of all that, he isn't running 3 or 4 other creatures at the same time.

You don't need to keep track of it. The player has it done for you. You can also take a glance at their character sheet before or during play, and if you remember a particular ability, you can declare that they use it against themselves (or whatever). Really, you're assuming it's harder than it is (speaking as someone who has run evil cowboy dimension twins against PC parties in the past, they required the LEAST set-up of any monster I've ever run).

Plus, you run into a problem with action economy. By summoning an external creature, the monster now gets 2 standard actions a round and can essentially attack twice. Does it take the standard action of the time creature in order to keep the duplicate going in order to balance that? It just isn't a feasible power. Also, if it is summoning creatures what is the purpose of the time creature? What role does it serve? Is it a striker since it is creating creatures to do damage?

And now you're careening off the edge.

First of all, we have an example of a monster who summons other monsters, so action economy can be accounted for.

Second of all, the initial idea was to not have it summoned during combat, but appearing as part of the encounter, thus being like any other normal monster or minion, rather than just piling onto the phane.

Nothing in 4e prevents evil cowboy universe duplicates attacking the PC's, because I'm sure the designers wouldn't be so cavalier as to eliminate that classic trope from the game.

So the only question is: why did the Phane loose this ability?
 

Fallen Seraph

First Post
Kamikaze Midget said:
So the only question is: why did the Phane loose this ability?

I was just re-reading the fluff, the Phane is only oriented towards time, not other dimensions. So, it wouldn't make sense in the new-fluff for the Phane to have this power.

So, we could very well see this becoming part of another monsters' powers.
 

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