D&D 5E Money System in D&DN?

[Orius]

I voted for gold standard 10-1, though silver wouldn't bother me a great deal.

The main reason for gold standard is that's what the PCs seem to use the most often. Weapons and armor tend to be priced by the gp, and that's the prices most important to a PC, unless they're in the kind of campaign where they're buying weird stuff off the tables to stymie whatever tricks and traps they think the DM has in store for them.

The silver standard itself doesn't bother me, if we're assuming that's typical wages for the commoner, but for the most part, it's more important to take into account what the PCs are actually using.

Silver or gold, I prefer the game to stick with a 10:1 conversion rate across the board. It's just easier to run things when 10 cp = 1 sp and 10 sp = 1 gp, and I'm used to it. I don't care what happens to platinum since I don't hand out pp, and I don't miss electrum. Platinum is moderately useful for converting large amounts of gold, but electrum has been somewhat pointless since at least 2e. Maybe it was ok in 1e when the exchange rates were different, but it was pointless in 2e when 2 ep = 1 gp and nothing was priced in ep. I just converted random ep treausre amounts to gold and that was that.

I suspect some of the love for the silver standard comes from peoples' experiences with OD&D/1e/Basic where treasure was worth xp. This became optional in 2e and 3e, and it leads to somewhat different playstyles. Where money=experience, you've got PCs piling up wealth to level, so the game starts throwing in money sinks like training costs to deal with it. It seems some DMs like to start lowballing treasure hauls as well so the PCs don't level up so fast, so thus the love of a silver standard.

 

[haakon1]

Electrum is just the sort of oddball historic nuance Gygax loved.

But I agree I don't see a need for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum

<<Electrum is a naturally occurring alloy of gold and silver, with trace amounts of copper and other metals. It has also been produced artificially, and is often known as green gold. ... Its colour ranges from pale to bright yellow, depending on the proportions of gold and silver. The gold content of naturally occurring electrum in modern Western Anatolia ranges from 70% to 90%, in contrast to the 45–55% of electrum used in ancient Lydian coinage of the same geographical area. This suggests that one reason for the invention of coinage in that area was to increase the profits from seignorage by issuing currency with a lower gold content than the commonly circulating metal.

Electrum was used for the earliest metal coins, and as early as the third millennium BC in Old Kingdom Egypt ... For several decades the medals awarded with the Nobel Prize have been made of gold-plated green gold.>>

 

[Dausuul]

I'd keep the oddball currencies like electrum and platinum, and maybe even add a couple, not as regular parts of the currency system but as world-building tools for DMs. For example, there might be an ancient, long-dead empire that used electrum as its main currency. When you're exploring a ruin and you find troves of electrum pieces, you know the ruin in question was built by the Carchassians. I enjoy those little touches of detail, even if most players never pick up on them.

 

[BobTheNob]

Vote me for currency as an abstract. Money has always been a poor way (imhe) of handling character growth and I prefer its abstracted into a role playing concept and that any equipment gain is handled through other mechanisms.

 

[Orius]

Electrum is just the sort of oddball historic nuance Gygax loved.

Yeah, there was a lot of that in the early game, and some of it was never all that necessary (polearms anyone?). Still, that stuff tends to have a better feel than some of the more recent material which feels artificial.

 

[haakon1]

I'd keep the oddball currencies like electrum and platinum ... there might be an ancient, long-dead empire that used electrum as its main currency. When you're exploring a ruin and you find troves of electrum pieces, you know the ruin in question was built by the Carchassians. ...

That's a good idea!

 

[cmbarona]

Ok, will try to tie it in again with the main topic at hand. But my point is Platinum really has no place on a fantasy economy, it being extremely overrated as a precious metal and not being as desirable on it's own as gold, silver or bronze. Granted Silver and Gold have always been rare in the western and ancient eastern world, but that isn't the only reason they are valuable, they are ver desirable by people, the moment a giant mountain made of silver was found in the 17th century it didn't became less valuable, it just caused inflation (as it happened with the gold fever later on). On the flipside Platinum has more industrial uses and it's price drops wildy whenever demand is reduced, if we suddenly found a mountain made of platinum its price would plummet making some goods cheaper, without otherwise affecting global economy. (In the same way purple clothes became dirt cheap when anhilin was discovered) . Some things are valuable because of their rarity, some other things are valuable because they are just desired that much, real world silver and gold belong on the later group, fantasy gaming silver and gold, not so much.

This is because fantasy gold and silver are 1) extremely common (more so with the gold standard) 2) not having their desirable and intrinsic properties being perceived 3) not having other uses beyond being currency (wouldn't it be cool if you could use the gold pieces from the last raid to cover the hilt of your sword and ornamenting your armor? or use it to have the local jeweler craft a fancy holy symbol? In fact I would venture Mithril comes actually closer to be the real world gold analog in D&D because of this).

Inflated prices made sense on both the original D&D and the first AD&D, the whole point was more about a group of gold diggers/adventurer/archeologists/grave robbers on a frontier setting (basically old wild west, except on medieval fantasy land). However it sets a bad precedent when it comes to gaming outside that gamestyle, which is far more common now than it used to be, and it has indeed shown a slight and progressive amount of inflation over the editions (and sadly it hasn't been enough infaltion to keep up with treassure leading to the aforementioned "I don't have anything to spend this on")

That is why I like silver standard over gold standard, but not only that, gold rewards have to be reduced accordingly, and more uses for gold have to be deevised (like using it to craft jewels, cover gear and stuff). And even then it might come to a point where a higher value metal is needed (at that point I suggest mithril instead of platinum, it makes more sense and gives it more flavor)

(underline added for clarity)

I actually love the idea of a mithril piece, but I'll confess I still don't get the argument of silver's appeal over platinum. Or just silver in general. My wedding ring is made out of platinum, and I love it. I wouldn't like a silver one because it would tarnish over time in a way that platinum does not. I get the arguments for using gold as a precious metal, because it's pretty non-reactive like platinum. And I get bronze and copper, or even iron, because while they degrade over time, they are also durable, and have some use in the formation of weapons, armor, and tools. Steel is thus even more valuable on that basis. Given all of these various factors, I frankly doubt you'll be able to convince me that platinum is not "desirable on its own."

I guess what I'm getting at is, why do you consider silver "desirable on its own"? I know it has a vast number of uses, but aren't most of those due to industrial technology? What value does silver have to a pre-industrial society (assuming that's the campaign you're running) aside from being shiny and as rare as you, the world-creator, choose?

 

[Mark Morrison]

Given that we make coins for RPGs, this is a super interesting subject!

Long use has made me instinctively think of copper as beer money, silver as food money, gold as item money, and platinum as serious loot.

The gold standard works for me, but it is fine that it varies from campaign to campaign, or from nation to nation within the same world. It's great to see DMs considering economics.

Years ago a friend played in a game with a copper piece economy. That game was a little on the hard side. Starvation was a bigger threat than monsters...

Cheers,

M.

 

[MoonSong]

(underline added for clarity)

I actually love the idea of a mithril piece, but I'll confess I still don't get the argument of silver's appeal over platinum. Or just silver in general. My wedding ring is made out of platinum, and I love it. I wouldn't like a silver one because it would tarnish over time in a way that platinum does not. I get the arguments for using gold as a precious metal, because it's pretty non-reactive like platinum. And I get bronze and copper, or even iron, because while they degrade over time, they are also durable, and have some use in the formation of weapons, armor, and tools. Steel is thus even more valuable on that basis. Given all of these various factors, I frankly doubt you'll be able to convince me that platinum is not "desirable on its own."

I guess what I'm getting at is, why do you consider silver "desirable on its own"? I know it has a vast number of uses, but aren't most of those due to industrial technology? What value does silver have to a pre-industrial society (assuming that's the campaign you're running) aside from being shiny and as rare as you, the world-creator, choose?

Well a preindustrial society wouldn't have the amounts of air and water pollution that in turn lead to silver tarnishing, and btw such society wouldn't ne able to easily turn platinum into jewerly.

For starters silver is shinny and very reflectant, being a key component of ancient mirrors, but it is also very noble, soft ductil and light, lending itself to not only jewerly but also many other delicate objects, and it is fairly resistant to corrosion, which is a key element to keeping it's value. Tarnishing is but a minor inconvenience and pretty tame in comparison, most other metals rust and turn into dust when under the same conditions. Most of these properties are shared with the copper and gold. Simply, the value of these three metals is readily apparent, while the value of platinum is not. (When europeans first discovered platinum they never considered it valuable, until many years later when they found out just how rare it was and the industrial uses it had, on the other hand silver was the one trade good chinese and japanesse never said no to)
And unlike platinum, silver isn't toxic in the long run.