(Mongoose) Babylon 5 Space Combat Game - Comments Needed!

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Mongoose Publishing is currently working on a new Babylon 5 space combat game (Codename Sky Full of Stars), to supplement its RPG. However, as these projects are wont to do, it is spiralling ever outwards and we can see some real potential in its design. The original plan was to produce a box set packed full of rules and ships, with counters to represent the actual vessels. The intention was that everything would be included inside for those who wanted to play larger engagements in their RPG, while those with B5 Wars fleets would be able to exchange the counters for their miniatures (regardless of the scale they collected in, incidentally).

However, we believe the new space combat game has a great deal of potential. We have to weigh this against the fact that a great many Babylon 5 fans already own large B5 Wars miniatures. So, we turn the question over to you chaps. The space combat game is coming out anyway (slated for an August release). Do you want miniatures support for it? Do you want a new range of Babylon 5 ships (in appropriate scale, of course) to collect and add to your existing fleets?

If we go down this route, we can be looking at a whole host of supplements, ships for every fleet imaginable, maybe even plastic ships in the main box set (though we would _seriously_ need to get our skates on for that!!!). If not, then we will release the boxed game as a supplement for the RPG, and then carry on with our original plans for Babylon 5.

If you are in favour of a new Babylon 5 ship miniatures game, drop me a line at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com and let me know. Simply put, if my inbox dies from those wanting to see new miniatures, then you shall have them!

Keep gaming,

 

[Cergorach]

I'm not the biggest Mongoose fan (i'm full of critique), but i would love to get good quality babylon 5 space ships! I kind of missed the boat with the whole Agents of Gaming business, i didn't have a store that carried the miniatures, and special ordering was extremely expensive at the time. I'm sure Mongoose will have a good distribution setup.

Although the idea of plastic ships sounds really cool, you might watnt to hold off on that until the line takes off. But then again, i'm not a business expert ;-)

Will it interface well with the RPG?

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

I have two things to say on this.

First, while tied to the RPG, please write the rules so they can also be used as a standalone wargame. Some of us hate mixing wargaming with roleplaying.

Second, learn from the huge mistakes of Voager Entertainment/Musashi Enterprises when they were pricing the miniatures for the Star Blazers Fleet Battle System. $14.95 was not an appropriate price point of a 3 inch long miniature of the Argo! $12.95 was not an appropriate price for the even larger Andromeda miniature! While the Argo and Andromeda now both cost only $9.95, the price reduction to a reasonable level came about 5 years too late for the game to ever gain any popularity.

As for plastic minis... well, what kind of plastic are you considering? Some just are not suited for anything the scale of miniatures.

 

[Flyspeck23]

However, we believe the new space combat game has a great deal of potential. We have to weigh this against the fact that a great many Babylon 5 fans already own large B5 Wars miniatures. So, we turn the question over to you chaps. The space combat game is coming out anyway (slated for an August release). Do you want miniatures support for it? Do you want a new range of Babylon 5 ships (in appropriate scale, of course) to collect and add to your existing fleets?

What existing fleets?

Seriously, if I'd ever run a Bab5 game (and according to plans, I will) it would be cool to have some nice miniatures for space combat. Price is the key here, really. If you'd do a plastic box I'm in

Hmmm... appropriate scale... so a Starfury would be tiny compared to, say, an Omega-Class Destroyer?

Although the idea of plastic ships sounds really cool, you might watnt to hold off on that until the line takes off.

IMHO that's not a good idea. If they'd first publish the game without any miniatures to support it (as a RPG supplement of sorts), it could be very hard to establish it as a stand-alone wargame later. And if there are only expensive metal miniatures people might stay away from it. I know I would.

 

[BigAlzBub]

One of the biggest problems you will face regarding B5 combats, is that all the combat is driven by events. What the hell does that mean (I hear you thinking)? Well the classic example is with the Drax (I think that's how you spell it), Delene meets with them and the meeting goes well until the Minbari mensions who she is, then the Drax breaks off contact and heads back to his ship, the Whitestar's head off to escape and the Drax open fire and trash them, they escape into hyperspace, only to return and then kick the crap out of the Drax and their powerful mothership, good for the story? hell yes, good for suspension of disbelief? errr no. The power of the ships was directly proportional to how important it was for them to win.

Having played the Agents of Gaming rule system, I though it was a passable game but they never really simulated things very well, the league of non-aligned dross (worlds) ships had some monsterously powerful technology (watered down first ones tech), when in the series pretty much all they were good for was blowing up.

I'll be very interested to see how this project pans out, are there going to be rules for fighter vs fighter battles, or will it be a couple of ships each side (maybe with fighter groups) or will it be multiple fleets? or will it be all of the above? Clearly fighter vs fighter, or ship to ship combat (with players manning important posts on the ship) would be best from an roleplaying perpective, but some people will certainly want fleet engaugements, how will the 2 or 3 systems interact with each other? As for miniatures I'm not that bothered about them, good quality card stock counters are the best way to start (IMO), if the game proves popular you can always add metal/plastic minis later. *phew* That was long boring and extremly random, *ducks and prepares to get flamed horribly*

 

[neonvirus]

I will add my 2 cents to the subject.
I and many of my friends were and still are big fans of the Agents of Gaming B5 wars, it was lots of fun and I spent many hours making valuable friends and then blowing them up.
I agree good card stock was great for us. I don’t remember if any of us bought miniatures, I didn’t but I did buy every source book. I would also like to see that the ships in the game represent their power in the TV show. If a Mimbari Sharlin is the mother of all ships (at least with the younger races) make it as deadly as it should be. Seeing your “advanced” technology ship get destroyed by a race that has barely mastered space travel is very disconcerting

I hope I got my point across.

Thank you for your time.

 

[D.Shaffer]

...Is Bruce Graw working on this one at all? I know he's done other projects for the B5 Line on Mongoose. Considering his prior work with B5Wars, I'll be glad to see him having a role in things.

Any chance of getting the old molds from B5-Wars, or have they all been destroyed?

 

[Staffan]

One of the biggest problems you will face regarding B5 combats, is that all the combat is driven by events. What the hell does that mean (I hear you thinking)? Well the classic example is with the Drax (I think that's how you spell it), Delene meets with them and the meeting goes well until the Minbari mensions who she is, then the Drax breaks off contact and heads back to his ship, the Whitestar's head off to escape and the Drax open fire and trash them, they escape into hyperspace, only to return and then kick the crap out of the Drax and their powerful mothership, good for the story? hell yes, good for suspension of disbelief? errr no. The power of the ships was directly proportional to how important it was for them to win.

That's not as senseless as it might seem at first. In the first situation, the White Stars were surrounded by the Drakh, and at a big tactical disadvantage. So, the WS's used their superior maneuverability to first get out of there, regroup, and then attack again on their terms.

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

Dunno if mentioning the competition is a good idea but what about releasing the fleets in battlegroups like Games Workshop did with the Epic 40K stuff? They had 'specialized' boxed sets for the various races like tanks, bikes, troops, dreadnoughts, etc so different things can be tried and the ease of creating a fleet.

Tying that back with a Bab5 wargame, a squad of Star Furies could be mounted on a base while any other ship could get its own base. Similarly please don't do the GW habit of jacking up the prices.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Plastics of the common B5 ships? I'm there!

Use metal for the unusual ships - Vorlons, Shadows, the Excalibur and even the less common League ships - Vree, Drazzi, etc., but plastic for Earth, Minbari, Narn, Centauri would be great.

For scale...? I used Micromachines with the old Babylon Project game, which used a linear movement system using a dot painted on the center of the figure for all measurements, if you use hexes then the size of the figure never comes into play much.so scale can be more flexible than you might think.

Events are what make scenarios, not what make rules. Have an engine that is friendly toward creating scenarios, but do not make the whole game event driven.

Make sure that can take a D20 B5 character and use it in the game, maybe having a die modifier equal to the skill plus ability modifier from D20 but without the accompanying system. (In other words use the same modifiers even if you are going with a D6 based system.) For non player ships this can be handled with the green, experienced, etc. of NPCs on ships in B5 D20 - don't explain which part comes from abilities and which comes from skill.


I'd also love to see B5 character minis, but given the D20 license I am not sure of the feasability of this.

The Auld Grump