Monk Attack sequences

[Donald Braden]

one additional 4 hit point attack will break things badly?

 

[Donald Braden]

the question is more centered on the situation where you expend no ki and you get the monk weapon and an unarmed attack. If you spend ki you get the monk weapon attack and two unarmed strikes. Picking up one additional d4 damage in an attack sequence seems like a pretty low return for spending a ki point on.

 

[jaelis]

Well it is 1d4 + Dex, and the damage goes up as you level. If you allow staff + unarmed strike as a standard attack option then you are doing comfortably more damage than a fighter with a greatsword.

 

[Quickleaf]

the question is more centered on the situation where you expend no ki and you get the monk weapon and an unarmed attack. If you spend ki you get the monk weapon attack and two unarmed strikes. Picking up one additional d4 damage in an attack sequence seems like a pretty low return for spending a ki point on.

My understanding is that a monk's Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows are not the same as Two Weapon Fighting rules. This is a case of an exception overriding the general rule.

So, you would indeed apply your Dexterity modifier to all unarmed attacks as a monk.

 

[Donald Braden]

it is a power balance issue, I am just worried the fifth level thing would shoot past the mark...In effect, through 4th level, 95% of my attacks look just like a normal monk weapon attack plus unarmed strike. Periodically I expend one of my 4 ki points to do flurry of blows in addition to the usual attack sequence.

The thing that seemed unbalanced to my DM, I am speculating, is that the fighter character, when expending superiority die (forgive me, just learing the 5e system so some of this be off) they can end up with rounds where they are delivering easily 20 or more points of damage while the monk character, spending a ki point maxes out around 16 if the normal unarmed strike is removed in order to spend that ki point.

 

[jaelis]

You get more ki than the fighter gets sup dice. Also you get a lot of other neat things.

 

[ad_hoc]

1. Monks aren't just about damage. They get a lot of versatile abilities.
2. Subclass plays a big role. Open Hand is the default and makes Flurry of Blows better. A Shadow Monk will use their spells more than Flurry but that is by design.
3. Stunning Strike is the key Monk ability.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

it is a power balance issue, I am just worried the fifth level thing would shoot past the mark...In effect, through 4th level, 95% of my attacks look just like a normal monk weapon attack plus unarmed strike. Periodically I expend one of my 4 ki points to do flurry of blows in addition to the usual attack sequence.

The thing that seemed unbalanced to my DM, I am speculating, is that the fighter character, when expending superiority die (forgive me, just learing the 5e system so some of this be off) they can end up with rounds where they are delivering easily 20 or more points of damage while the monk character, spending a ki point maxes out around 16 if the normal unarmed strike is removed in order to spend that ki point.

As [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] pointed out, you get bonus damage on each monk unarmed strike, so your maximum from a three-attack flurry is actually well into the 20s, and from a four-attack flurry could pretty easily pass 30.

 

[Chase Skylark]

So.... Your DM gave you extra attack(1) with extra attack (2) at 5. I would probably never bother with flurry unless I was open hand. Bonus action and 4 ki let's me stunning strike 3 different enemies and use disengage. That's a hell of a resource economy boost. Don't even need to disengage unless they make their save. That's a LOT of potential control especially with monk speed

 

[jessicaafm]

So, playing a monk in 5e. My dungeon master and i talked this through as I researched some african martial arts traditions when developing my character.

The monk Martial Arts feature indicates that the monk can make one unarmed blow as a bonus action. In the real world description of the goal of some of these martial arts traditions is to "use the entire animal" so if you strke a weapon with your fighting stick you should use your momentum to drive your elbow into the side of your head.

DM made the call that as a martial artist that counts as just part of the attack action then.

We decided that because otherwise you are talking about a significant expense of a ki point to gain just 1 additional strike and that seems a steep price to pay for a very limited resource.

I have not reached 5th level yet, I imagine we will land on only being able to make use of the martial arts unarmed strike once, while still being to expend a ki point for two additional blows.

So at 4th level my attack sequence is:
1. Quarterstaff strike.
2. unarmed strike (which would be an elbow or some other follow through sort of strike with a body part)
3. (opitinal with expense of ki point) two additional unarmed strikes.

5th level would look like this
1. quarterstaff strike
2. unarmed strike (optional, if used here, can not use unarmed strike 4)
3. quarterstaff strike (extra attack feature)
4. unarmed strike (can be used only if not used in attack 2)
5. (optional with expense of Ki point) Flurry of Blows

Of course now, typing it out the momentum argument would need to apply to both the attack and extra attack...

What are other people's thoughts?

Its still a bonus action so your 5th level sequence is right. You could use it on 2 or 4 but not both unless there is something I have missed that allows for 2 bonus actions per round. Of course, the rules are really suggestions for your DM, so its really up to their discretion.